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<blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 6630643" data-attributes="member: 40177">This reminds me of Twilight Imperium races, where each is given a tier.&nbsp; And when I see that, the tier system is always off... and that's a game where the rules are pretty cut and dried.&nbsp; Any time you're trying to tier a game where a class is only one of dozens of inputs... it's kind of pointless.&nbsp; My own game shows how these rankings just don't work:&nbsp; *&nbsp; The bard has so far been an underperformer, despite being played by the most tactical of characters.&nbsp; *&nbsp; The fighter is a top performer (protection is AMAZING - he often doesn't even make attacks, just preferring to dodge).&nbsp; And do you realize that at 5th level, a hasted fighter can make up to five attacks in a round?&nbsp; Or six if he's two weapon fighting?&nbsp; That's insane.*&nbsp; The barbarian is underperforming, but only because she never uses her rage.&nbsp; If she did, she'd be high up there.&nbsp; *&nbsp; The rogue is SO not low tier.&nbsp; She's the only one who gets expertise as an ability, which means her skills are hugely high for low levels (+8 at first level!).&nbsp; She can also, each round, deal 1d8+1d6+4 points of damage, making her the primary damage dealer, most rounds.&nbsp; Being able to disengage as a bonus action, OR hide as a bonus action, means that she can get her sneak attack in, and move out to safety.&nbsp; I think tonight was only the second or third time I've her hit all campaign... despite her relatively low AC.&nbsp; *&nbsp; The wizard can deal damage, solve problems, and everything else.&nbsp; He's a diviner, which I agree is one of the best schools.&nbsp; Point is, I don't think there's really any point assigning tiers to classes.&nbsp; No matter what you do, they're not going to make sense.&nbsp; My girlfriend is about to play a wild mage.&nbsp; She's super excited.&nbsp; At no point would I look at her and say &quot;meh, that's a tier three build you've got there&quot;.&nbsp; What's the point?&nbsp; I'd much rather say &quot;Hey, that sounds like fun!&nbsp; Can't wait to see her in play!&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wik, post: 6630643, member: 40177"] This reminds me of Twilight Imperium races, where each is given a tier. And when I see that, the tier system is always off... and that's a game where the rules are pretty cut and dried. Any time you're trying to tier a game where a class is only one of dozens of inputs... it's kind of pointless. My own game shows how these rankings just don't work: * The bard has so far been an underperformer, despite being played by the most tactical of characters. * The fighter is a top performer (protection is AMAZING - he often doesn't even make attacks, just preferring to dodge). And do you realize that at 5th level, a hasted fighter can make up to five attacks in a round? Or six if he's two weapon fighting? That's insane. * The barbarian is underperforming, but only because she never uses her rage. If she did, she'd be high up there. * The rogue is SO not low tier. She's the only one who gets expertise as an ability, which means her skills are hugely high for low levels (+8 at first level!). She can also, each round, deal 1d8+1d6+4 points of damage, making her the primary damage dealer, most rounds. Being able to disengage as a bonus action, OR hide as a bonus action, means that she can get her sneak attack in, and move out to safety. I think tonight was only the second or third time I've her hit all campaign... despite her relatively low AC. * The wizard can deal damage, solve problems, and everything else. He's a diviner, which I agree is one of the best schools. Point is, I don't think there's really any point assigning tiers to classes. No matter what you do, they're not going to make sense. My girlfriend is about to play a wild mage. She's super excited. At no point would I look at her and say "meh, that's a tier three build you've got there". What's the point? I'd much rather say "Hey, that sounds like fun! Can't wait to see her in play!" [/QUOTE]

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