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Message: <blockquote data-quote="vandaexpress" data-source="post: 6631199" data-attributes="member: 6790472">Yeah. Tier system doesn't really make sense anymore. You can do it, but it's not as meaningful as it once was. Exception being Beastmaster, which I agree is bottom tier or whatever you want to call it, unless I'm missing something.Whenever I see these lists, I'm always like "Hm. Interesting. Okay, yeah. I agree with that... and that... and... wait, WTF? Why did he rank this class this way? That class is awesome? What kind of game is this bozo playing anyhow? If he ranks this class that badly, then why should I grant credibility to his other rankings!? This guy must not know what he's doing!" Anyway, as others have mentioned, I think its a testament to the game design that everyone has such varied opinions on this. Speaking of opinions... here are my thoughts on the list:Barbarians are tier 2, easily. It used to be that the only decent chance I had of taking the party barb out was if I surprised him before he raged, now I can't even do that. He still goes down in many fights, but that's because he's absorbing an inordinate amount of damage. Eagle sight or whatever makes him the best daylight scout in the game for the group. Dodges spells, advantage on initiative, faster move speed, high strength allows him to jump like a crazy person, with the bear thing you literally cannot put this guy down without dealing a ton of damage, advantage on grapple type checks when raging... I've never considered the barbarian as being a one-trick moar damage pony. In the group I run, that's not his role at all. He plays an instrumental role in the combat pillar by taking all of the damages. All of them. He doesn't need a paladin aura to take half damage from most spells... because he's already taking half damage when raging. Then he helps in the exploration pillar by breaking stuff and using athletics to do stuff, plus his eagle eye 1-mile vision thing, and in social well, I admit he's not too useful in the social pillar except for intimidation checks when I allow strength as the core ability and he rages. Still, I cannot fathom him as a tier 3 class... at all. Like, I disagree with many of these rankings, but this was the entry for me that made me go ballistic on this list. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />And for reasons Celtavian already mentioned, I have an incredibly hard time putting Arcane Trickster at tier 3. No way. A rogue with illusions is so incredibly versatile, mix in cunning action and sneak attack, I don't know man. I have a really hard time imagining, say... a champion being more useful in more pillars of the game more of the time than an Arcane trickster. It doesn't even take a genius to see the potential here. I mean... invisibility spells on a rogue that can hide as a bonus action and sneak attack... it's not rocket science. Social pillar? Dude... you're a ROGUE with all the skills and illusions. Exploration pillar? Dude... You're a ROGUE with all the skills, stealth, and illusions. I just don't see how this guy isn't at least tier 2, tier 1 in the hands of a skilled player. Skills plus spells plus burst damage does not equal tier 3 in my book.</blockquote>

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