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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 6631329" data-attributes="member: 6750235">1) Weapon attacks scale with magic items and attack spell bonuses. Sacred flame does not.2) I can't disagree on that but it's an edge case.3) It takes 2 hands to wield the sword, not to hold it while freeing up one hand.&nbsp; This was confirmed by the developers on twitter.&nbsp; RAW you are not attacking with the sword at the same time you are casting a spell.&nbsp; Your spreadsheet is wrong because it doesn't consider all the variables and is the epitome of theorycrafting over practice like you were accusing me.&nbsp; Incorrectly.&nbsp; I also stated the war cleric was more defensive in armor (even without the shield unless a feat was spent for armor on the light cleric, or DEX invested) and the avatar ability.&nbsp; There is more than damage considered.&nbsp; Like half damage for much lower concentration DC's.4) I stated what I was sacrificing in my example.&nbsp; 2 defensive feats but I would juggle that as I saw fit and more likely only take an 18 WIS for another feat.&nbsp; The light cleric gave up heavy armor to get that 20 WIS whether you saw it or not.5) How so?&nbsp; As I see it, I have the option to do the same thing with spiritual weapon, and an alternative that doesn't require having spend a spell slot if necessary.&nbsp; I'm more likely to simply use spiritual weapon.You were incorrect in your assumption I have not tested them a lot.&nbsp; Your testing doesn't make you more or less correct.&nbsp; Your experience is subjective perception and anecdotal, much like mine.&nbsp; That's why I include sample build concepts, specific mechanics, and why I see a particular tool in the tool box as good.&nbsp; I can easily have war cleric that works well because he doesn't die or lose concentration, and I can build one with 20 STR and 20 WIS that does better damage than cantrips but usually at the expense of a choice of either that or spiritual hammer so it's just a spell saver.&nbsp; Light cleric has no advantages over the war cleric other than low level direct damage spells and the flare abilities, and bonus damage on sacred flame.&nbsp; He gives up heavy armor and abilities that enhance weapons in the group game, and the war cleric who picks up shillelagh can also pick up either thunderclap for an AoE cantrip.&nbsp; War domain also adds hold monster and it's pretty damaging.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 6631329, member: 6750235"] 1) Weapon attacks scale with magic items and attack spell bonuses. Sacred flame does not. 2) I can't disagree on that but it's an edge case. 3) It takes 2 hands to wield the sword, not to hold it while freeing up one hand. This was confirmed by the developers on twitter. RAW you are not attacking with the sword at the same time you are casting a spell. Your spreadsheet is wrong because it doesn't consider all the variables and is the epitome of theorycrafting over practice like you were accusing me. Incorrectly. I also stated the war cleric was more defensive in armor (even without the shield unless a feat was spent for armor on the light cleric, or DEX invested) and the avatar ability. There is more than damage considered. Like half damage for much lower concentration DC's. 4) I stated what I was sacrificing in my example. 2 defensive feats but I would juggle that as I saw fit and more likely only take an 18 WIS for another feat. The light cleric gave up heavy armor to get that 20 WIS whether you saw it or not. 5) How so? As I see it, I have the option to do the same thing with spiritual weapon, and an alternative that doesn't require having spend a spell slot if necessary. I'm more likely to simply use spiritual weapon. You were incorrect in your assumption I have not tested them a lot. Your testing doesn't make you more or less correct. Your experience is subjective perception and anecdotal, much like mine. That's why I include sample build concepts, specific mechanics, and why I see a particular tool in the tool box as good. I can easily have war cleric that works well because he doesn't die or lose concentration, and I can build one with 20 STR and 20 WIS that does better damage than cantrips but usually at the expense of a choice of either that or spiritual hammer so it's just a spell saver. Light cleric has no advantages over the war cleric other than low level direct damage spells and the flare abilities, and bonus damage on sacred flame. He gives up heavy armor and abilities that enhance weapons in the group game, and the war cleric who picks up shillelagh can also pick up either thunderclap for an AoE cantrip. War domain also adds hold monster and it's pretty damaging. [/QUOTE]

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