NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DaveDash" data-source="post: 6631379" data-attributes="member: 6786202">1. You can't assume magic items. I've read through a couple of official modules now and they have very few magic weapons in them. If you do assume magic items, that changes things, but it's far too open to come to any robust conclusion. Yes, you gain access to magic weapon spell, but there's usually something better to concentrate on (Bless).3. You are still sacrificing AC to get a very marginal boost in damage over sacred flame. Then all the other factors I have outlined STILL apply, such as your actual DPR being lower because you spend rounds closing into melee to engage, your damage type being inferior, and as you level your hit percentage decreases comparatively. These are all facts I have witnessed from playing in game.4. You're sacrificing a lot to get there. Meanwhile the Light Cleric naturally synergies with high wisdom, making them much less MAD. Again, I don't care what you do to get around the War Cleric MAD issue, you're still sacrificing more to do it - because you have more ability score dependencies. Light Cleric only depends on Wisdom. That's an irrefutable fact.5.  You are bonus action constrained as a War Cleric, because your main damage boost output relies on consuming your bonus action. Also, a lot of your spells in your list also require bonus actions. It's a waste of resources to boost Spiritual Weapon (Wisdom) and Strength, and it's much more efficient to be good at one or the other. The Light Cleric is under no such complications as they are much more bonus action efficient, leaving them to max out spiritual weapon naturally, without having to compromise in other areas. Meanwhile their cantrips WILL be doing more damage than you over the course of the day. Your 2d6+2d8+5 assumes level 14, and as a note, your extra 2d8 radiant damage can only be used once per turn, making your damage very lacklusture. Also because the Light Cleric has no investment in melee, they can quite happily focus on spells that are vastly more effective such as Hold Person/Hold Monster/Banishment/etc, with much less concern with losing concentration.Some additional points:6. As you get higher level as a War Cleric you attack less. Your action is consumed more and more by casting spells in combat, making the entire premise of your class sketchy. If you're not casting spells and focusing on what pathetic little melee damage that you do, the group will be suffering in other areas. No bless, no debuffs, no other things.7. If you're using a Greatsword and trying to do melee damage, why not just go a Paladin? That class can fill that role MUCH more effectively than you.8. Some of your arguments like resistance to B/P/S don't come into play until so late, they're not even worse considering.9. The best defense against losing concentration is not being in line of effect. War Clerics do not have this luxury, and good luck getting far without Resilient (CON). At level 11 and above, my War Cleric was constantly losing concentration without this feat. So you now have a Cleric who needs 20 Str, 20 Wis, and also needs a feat. What's your CON? 10? Good luck with that.The Light Cleric has so many advantages over the War Cleric, but namely flexibility. The War Cleric is not a great melee fighter, and he's not a great spell caster, unless he completely focuses on Wisdom, and then he's not as good at it as other Clerics. There is nothing he can do that another class or sub class can do better.Many people have worked out the inferiority and bad class design of the War Cleric. Zard has in his original post, and even the Cleric guides over on the WoTC forums rubbish it. I am War Cleric player who is very fond of my character, but the class design is poor.I've been exploring the option of Cleric 8 -> Fighter 6 -> Cleric 14, and from my play testing so far it seems like a superior path to just sticking with War Cleric. If you're going to be a melee type on the front line, you want to be half good at it. There's a bit of pain missing out on some nice Cleric spells, but the character seems much more effective overall. The main problem I have with this build is I should have taken Fighter first, as Str/Con saves are much better than Wis/Cha saves for a front line melee character (another design flaw).</blockquote>

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