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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6632091" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Except the old tier system was more about versatility than power.</p><p></p><p>Look at the first three 3.x tiers. The first can basically own virtually anything with relatively short notice. Tier 2 can do the same - but needs a much longer lead time, at least a level-up, if not chargen. Tier 3 is closer to 'balanced,' and simply can't pwn everything, but can contribute most of the time. It goes down from there.</p><p></p><p>In 3.x, that (very roughly) broke down to Tier-1 being prepped full casters, Tier 2 being spontaneous full casters, and Tier 3 and lower being everyone else.</p><p></p><p>There's still quite the range of versatility in 5e. You have neo-Vancian casters who combine the versatility of 3.x prepped & spontaneous casting as Tier-1 candidates, other full casters as candidates for Tier 2, and then how the few non-casters shake out is debateable, if not terribly important (whether DPR, alone, can claw you up to Tier 3, for instance). The range of versatility still goes from Wizard/Cleric/Druid at one end, down to Champion Fighter at the other, though the distribution is probably clustered more towards the top, since there are only 5 'mundane' character options out of 38....</p><p></p><p></p><p> Put that way, I can agree. The Tiers are held up as an example of how whacked-crazy-broken 3.x was, but it was really the bloat and the crazy optimized builds that made it so broken. The Tiers, though, were valid even PH1-only, since they were about each class as a whole, not individual builds.</p><p></p><p> The 5e community has so far avoided the RAW and build-obsessions of 3.x, so sure, variations from table to table are potentially great. That still doesn't invalidate the concept of Tiers, though, as higher Tier classes will give you more to work with in dealing with that range of variation - not as much as being able to read/game your DM, of course, but more than a lower Tier class.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6632091, member: 996"] Except the old tier system was more about versatility than power. Look at the first three 3.x tiers. The first can basically own virtually anything with relatively short notice. Tier 2 can do the same - but needs a much longer lead time, at least a level-up, if not chargen. Tier 3 is closer to 'balanced,' and simply can't pwn everything, but can contribute most of the time. It goes down from there. In 3.x, that (very roughly) broke down to Tier-1 being prepped full casters, Tier 2 being spontaneous full casters, and Tier 3 and lower being everyone else. There's still quite the range of versatility in 5e. You have neo-Vancian casters who combine the versatility of 3.x prepped & spontaneous casting as Tier-1 candidates, other full casters as candidates for Tier 2, and then how the few non-casters shake out is debateable, if not terribly important (whether DPR, alone, can claw you up to Tier 3, for instance). The range of versatility still goes from Wizard/Cleric/Druid at one end, down to Champion Fighter at the other, though the distribution is probably clustered more towards the top, since there are only 5 'mundane' character options out of 38.... Put that way, I can agree. The Tiers are held up as an example of how whacked-crazy-broken 3.x was, but it was really the bloat and the crazy optimized builds that made it so broken. The Tiers, though, were valid even PH1-only, since they were about each class as a whole, not individual builds. The 5e community has so far avoided the RAW and build-obsessions of 3.x, so sure, variations from table to table are potentially great. That still doesn't invalidate the concept of Tiers, though, as higher Tier classes will give you more to work with in dealing with that range of variation - not as much as being able to read/game your DM, of course, but more than a lower Tier class. [/QUOTE]
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