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<blockquote data-quote="lichmaster" data-source="post: 8479085" data-attributes="member: 6683330">I didn't want to be this pedantic, but since it's needed let's go.. The above statement is wrong: 3.5E was also non-vancian in the sense you refer to, as you didn't have to memorize the same spell multiple times to cast it more than once. That happened in 2e, and only if you weren't using any Player's Options (in Spells &amp; Magic there were ways to go beyond this aspect of Vancian magic).That not what I said, nor my intent, it's your inference.In general, Vancian magic refers to both the fixed nature of spells and the fact that you can only cast a fixed number of them.You can relaxe it a bit by having a more flexible number of spells you cast (by not forgetting a spell you cast, albeit being still subject to the max number of spells per each spell level, by upcasting or using metamagic to alter slightly some spells), but it's still the same spells you cast.To make it truly non-Vancian, the spells themselves should be flexible enough that you make them up on the spot, like in Ars Magica, WOIN, Elements of Magic, etc. This is a different and very simple question, whose answer is yes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="lichmaster, post: 8479085, member: 6683330"] I didn't want to be this pedantic, but since it's needed let's go.. The above statement is wrong: 3.5E was also non-vancian in the sense you refer to, as you didn't have to memorize the same spell multiple times to cast it more than once. That happened in 2e, and only if you weren't using any Player's Options (in Spells & Magic there were ways to go beyond this aspect of Vancian magic). That not what I said, nor my intent, it's your inference. In general, Vancian magic refers to both the fixed nature of spells and the fact that you can only cast a fixed number of them. You can relaxe it a bit by having a more flexible number of spells you cast (by not forgetting a spell you cast, albeit being still subject to the max number of spells per each spell level, by upcasting or using metamagic to alter slightly some spells), but it's still the same spells you cast. To make it truly non-Vancian, the spells themselves should be flexible enough that you make them up on the spot, like in Ars Magica, WOIN, Elements of Magic, etc. This is a different and very simple question, whose answer is yes. [/QUOTE]

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