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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6946435" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>But... but they're all 4E solutions. Or "solutions" as I like to call most everything from 4E, because very little of it worked satisfactorily to me.</p><p></p><p>Milestones, the way you were denied healing when out of surges, the unified AEDU, almost all of it came across to me as either clumsy or heavyhanded. </p><p></p><p>Point being: somebody can't say "well we tried" if all those attempts were in the 4E era. As I said, I want to see the 5E designers take a stab at this. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Look, I know you're subtly pushing your agenda that 5E is oh-so-different and balance is a nonissue, but I don't buy it.</p><p></p><p>5E is much closer to 3E (than 4E) in almost every aspect, which is why I'm bundling them together. </p><p></p><p>You might have much more experience with 4E, and you might read lots of 4E influence into 5E. Myself, I consider 5E to chiefly be a descendant of 3E. An edition that finally fixes for good a large portion of the d20 niggles, in a way that 3.5 or PF never comes even close to.</p><p></p><p>You're saying class balance isn't a thing in 5E, but since I consider class balance being better now than ever before (excluding 4E), I really can't muster up any objection - as I see it, class balance was a definite priority. I mean, I can't believe it was just a "happy accident" now can I? </p><p></p><p>That doesn't mean I don't see how class balance has taken a step backwards from 4E. Sure, compared to 4E, class balance has taken a step backwards. I just can't care <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p>If a thing breaks down when you go outside its parameters, that is seldom hailed as a successful design.</p><p></p><p><em>That's what we call design limitations, Tony.</em> Not even a spin doctor gets to call that enforcement...</p><p></p><p>Also, good enforcement makes it clear what you do wrong. Merely having a thing break down gives no such explanations.</p><p></p><p>If you want to find actual enforcement, you'll have to look for something slightly more active than the thing breaking down merely by not using the thing as intended.</p><p></p><p>(Unless you want to argue the designers COULD have made 5E work even for single-encounter days, but CHOSE to have the game break down when used in such a way. But that would be preposterous in so many ways.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6946435, member: 12731"] But... but they're all 4E solutions. Or "solutions" as I like to call most everything from 4E, because very little of it worked satisfactorily to me. Milestones, the way you were denied healing when out of surges, the unified AEDU, almost all of it came across to me as either clumsy or heavyhanded. Point being: somebody can't say "well we tried" if all those attempts were in the 4E era. As I said, I want to see the 5E designers take a stab at this. Look, I know you're subtly pushing your agenda that 5E is oh-so-different and balance is a nonissue, but I don't buy it. 5E is much closer to 3E (than 4E) in almost every aspect, which is why I'm bundling them together. You might have much more experience with 4E, and you might read lots of 4E influence into 5E. Myself, I consider 5E to chiefly be a descendant of 3E. An edition that finally fixes for good a large portion of the d20 niggles, in a way that 3.5 or PF never comes even close to. You're saying class balance isn't a thing in 5E, but since I consider class balance being better now than ever before (excluding 4E), I really can't muster up any objection - as I see it, class balance was a definite priority. I mean, I can't believe it was just a "happy accident" now can I? That doesn't mean I don't see how class balance has taken a step backwards from 4E. Sure, compared to 4E, class balance has taken a step backwards. I just can't care :) If a thing breaks down when you go outside its parameters, that is seldom hailed as a successful design. [I]That's what we call design limitations, Tony.[/I] Not even a spin doctor gets to call that enforcement... Also, good enforcement makes it clear what you do wrong. Merely having a thing break down gives no such explanations. If you want to find actual enforcement, you'll have to look for something slightly more active than the thing breaking down merely by not using the thing as intended. (Unless you want to argue the designers COULD have made 5E work even for single-encounter days, but CHOSE to have the game break down when used in such a way. But that would be preposterous in so many ways.) [/QUOTE]
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