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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 2043387" data-attributes="member: 1465">(my comments don't apply to d20 Modern classes, because I've only heard of them)I think the ideas of yours are all feasible and interesting. If the target is to achieve a lower magic level in your setting, you could just do as simple as allowing the Wizard (or others) only after a certain level. This is the sort of thing that you won't see in a 3ed book, but there's no problem in doing that in your own game.I think Buttercup is looking forward for a different aim: that of emphasising character's pre-heroic development (maybe even youth) instead of going immediately into the PHB classes which start with supernatural albeit weak powers. Am I right? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I seem to remember that you have been using 0th-level apprentice characters for example....Anyway, for both targets it is possible to just keep the class as it is and put a level requirement. In a straight &quot;not before level 5&quot; doesn't sound nice, it can be substituted with a Knowledge skill rank, what do you think?Or another possibility to try... but this is going pretty out of the normal <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> You may just not have the Wizard and Sorcerer base classes, and instead allow all those PrCls with &quot;+1 level in a spellcasting class&quot; to actually GRANT spellcasting, either like Wiz or Sor (chosen at 1st level).So there will be no generic Wiz/Sor, but there will be e.g. Elemental Savants, Loremasters, Mindbenders... Obviously there's need to change the prerequisites, and not every PrCl would work. The effect is that the setting doesn't have (arcane) casters of character level 5 or less, but each is prestigious since its start.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 2043387, member: 1465"] [SIZE=1](my comments don't apply to d20 Modern classes, because I've only heard of them)[/SIZE] I think the ideas of yours are all feasible and interesting. If the target is to achieve a lower magic level in your setting, you could just do as simple as allowing the Wizard (or others) only after a certain level. This is the sort of thing that you won't see in a 3ed book, but there's no problem in doing that in your own game. I think Buttercup is looking forward for a different aim: that of emphasising character's pre-heroic development (maybe even youth) instead of going immediately into the PHB classes which start with supernatural albeit weak powers. Am I right? :) I seem to remember that you have been using 0th-level apprentice characters for example.... Anyway, for both targets it is possible to just keep the class as it is and put a level requirement. In a straight "not before level 5" doesn't sound nice, it can be substituted with a Knowledge skill rank, what do you think? Or another possibility to try... but this is going pretty out of the normal :p You may just not have the Wizard and Sorcerer base classes, and instead allow all those PrCls with "+1 level in a spellcasting class" to actually GRANT spellcasting, either like Wiz or Sor (chosen at 1st level). So there will be no generic Wiz/Sor, but there will be e.g. Elemental Savants, Loremasters, Mindbenders... Obviously there's need to change the prerequisites, and not every PrCl would work. The effect is that the setting doesn't have (arcane) casters of character level 5 or less, but each is prestigious since its start. [/QUOTE]

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