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Classless/Point Buy d20?
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 4576967" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Well, it really is a great book.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I see those as being the two big restrictions that are still in place, now that classes/levels are freed up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ideally, a point-buy system to replace the necessity of magic items would allow characters to continue to function in a 3.5 game. The idea isn't to remove the things that require magic items in the first place - that'd require overhauling the entire d20 system, to some degree - but to make it so that magic item effects can be point-bought the same way that class abilities are, thus making it less about what character <em>have</em> than about what they can <em>do</em>. The need for magic items from a game mechanics remains, in that instance, but it's filled a different way, as magic items are functionally replaced.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, it's not about changing the function of items. Rather, what's the XP expenditure for getting a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and overcoming DR X/magic? How much more does it cost to upgrade that to a +2 enhancement bonus? That's the idea, here. I'm glad you'll look it over, though. I think that'd be a major expansion of CC's theme.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: One of the major strengths of the d20 System is that everything is interconnected; that unlike AD&D 1E and 2E, it's not a group of collective sub-systems that operate independently from each other. However, that's exactly how magic items work, in terms of their necessity for character viability. We measure how many gold pieces-worth of magic items a character should have by level, but this is divorced utterly from the XP tables that measure level in the first place. Hence, an overhaul to one doesn't affect the other, and a character still needs to be at the median for both measurements in order to be balanced and playable. This is, I think, one of the major weaknesses of the d20 System.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This sounds like a good idea in theory, but I think in practice it'd be almost impossible to make work. While ideally there'd be generalized guidelines for how to power down a monster, in reality you'd almost certainly need to tailor each monster individually to make this work. I can't even imagine how you'd alter the CR of the monster, since CR is already more of an art than a science. And I doubt anyone would be able to agree on how much "powering-down" is needed to bring them back to the proverbial "sweet spot" of the game, since there's no major consensus on where exactly that is. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That does make it trickier, but surely that same problem was there for classes when working with CC? I've heard plenty of people say that class X was more powerful than other classes of the same level.</p><p></p><p>As it stands, CC already seems to lay down the groundwork for about half of making racial abilities into point-buy features. I think a supplement that gave that the full treatment would be a great follow-up product. That said, you would have to work out what exactly was and wasn't bought (do you purchase creature type and size, for example?), and determine the XP costs of various racial powers, which is difficult since there isn't a clear baseline on them now, but I think it'd be a worthwhile enterprise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, I don't know of any such thread about that. I know there are a few sourcebooks that try to make racial abilities purchasable (such as, I think, the <a href="http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2956&it=1" target="_blank">Race Creation Cookbook</a>) but I'm pretty sure they don't use XP as a guideline.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wanted to make a joke about how, thus far, it's just Incomplete Control, but I couldn't figure out a good delivery. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 4576967, member: 8461"] Well, it really is a great book. Yeah, I see those as being the two big restrictions that are still in place, now that classes/levels are freed up. Ideally, a point-buy system to replace the necessity of magic items would allow characters to continue to function in a 3.5 game. The idea isn't to remove the things that require magic items in the first place - that'd require overhauling the entire d20 system, to some degree - but to make it so that magic item effects can be point-bought the same way that class abilities are, thus making it less about what character [i]have[/i] than about what they can [i]do[/i]. The need for magic items from a game mechanics remains, in that instance, but it's filled a different way, as magic items are functionally replaced. Again, it's not about changing the function of items. Rather, what's the XP expenditure for getting a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and overcoming DR X/magic? How much more does it cost to upgrade that to a +2 enhancement bonus? That's the idea, here. I'm glad you'll look it over, though. I think that'd be a major expansion of CC's theme. EDIT: One of the major strengths of the d20 System is that everything is interconnected; that unlike AD&D 1E and 2E, it's not a group of collective sub-systems that operate independently from each other. However, that's exactly how magic items work, in terms of their necessity for character viability. We measure how many gold pieces-worth of magic items a character should have by level, but this is divorced utterly from the XP tables that measure level in the first place. Hence, an overhaul to one doesn't affect the other, and a character still needs to be at the median for both measurements in order to be balanced and playable. This is, I think, one of the major weaknesses of the d20 System. This sounds like a good idea in theory, but I think in practice it'd be almost impossible to make work. While ideally there'd be generalized guidelines for how to power down a monster, in reality you'd almost certainly need to tailor each monster individually to make this work. I can't even imagine how you'd alter the CR of the monster, since CR is already more of an art than a science. And I doubt anyone would be able to agree on how much "powering-down" is needed to bring them back to the proverbial "sweet spot" of the game, since there's no major consensus on where exactly that is. That does make it trickier, but surely that same problem was there for classes when working with CC? I've heard plenty of people say that class X was more powerful than other classes of the same level. As it stands, CC already seems to lay down the groundwork for about half of making racial abilities into point-buy features. I think a supplement that gave that the full treatment would be a great follow-up product. That said, you would have to work out what exactly was and wasn't bought (do you purchase creature type and size, for example?), and determine the XP costs of various racial powers, which is difficult since there isn't a clear baseline on them now, but I think it'd be a worthwhile enterprise. Unfortunately, I don't know of any such thread about that. I know there are a few sourcebooks that try to make racial abilities purchasable (such as, I think, the [url=http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2956&it=1]Race Creation Cookbook[/url]) but I'm pretty sure they don't use XP as a guideline. I wanted to make a joke about how, thus far, it's just Incomplete Control, but I couldn't figure out a good delivery. ;) [/QUOTE]
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