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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 4914761" data-attributes="member: 12731">Sorry, I didn't make it clear my questions were rhetorical.But now that you've replied, let me set you straight.#1. Your first answer is a circle argument. Divine Sanction is okay because it was designed that way? And how does the ability to sanction others fix the fact that challenge isn't sticky enough?#2. You're correct. Except that the new paladin at wills aren't that different from the old ones. Assuming you agree the new at-wills are balanced visavi other classes; adding basic attacks to the old ones won't change that balance much. However, both approaches will make Chaladins far more viable!#3. I disagree it is a &quot;kludge&quot; to fix what's there instead of just abandoning old stuff and replacing it with new shiny (expensive) books. And I wasn't suggesting you just add Ardent Strike and Virtuous Touch to the PHB Paladin. I was expecting WotC to rebalance Lay on Hands in a way that allowed the new features to be additions, not replacements. (One idea is to make Lay on Hands into an encounter power instead of several dailies. The way you no longer can spam all your Lay on Hands in the first encounter should register as a nerf - possibly enough of a nerf to add in Virtuous Touch? And if you say you can do EITHER Lay on Hands OR Ardent Strike once per encounter perhaps that takes care of including that one too)But generally, all of this is beside the issue. This thread isn't about discussing whether WotC's approach is right or wrong; it's about coming up with alternatives that doesn't require a constant stream of new book purchases. (Specifically for the PHB Paladin, I might add)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 4914761, member: 12731"] Sorry, I didn't make it clear my questions were rhetorical. But now that you've replied, let me set you straight. #1. Your first answer is a circle argument. Divine Sanction is okay because it was designed that way? And how does the ability to sanction others fix the fact that challenge isn't sticky enough? #2. You're correct. Except that the new paladin at wills aren't that different from the old ones. Assuming you agree the new at-wills are balanced visavi other classes; adding basic attacks to the old ones won't change that balance much. However, both approaches will make Chaladins far more viable! #3. I disagree it is a "kludge" to fix what's there instead of just abandoning old stuff and replacing it with new shiny (expensive) books. And I wasn't suggesting you just add Ardent Strike and Virtuous Touch to the PHB Paladin. I was expecting WotC to rebalance Lay on Hands in a way that allowed the new features to be additions, not replacements. (One idea is to make Lay on Hands into an encounter power instead of several dailies. The way you no longer can spam all your Lay on Hands in the first encounter should register as a nerf - possibly enough of a nerf to add in Virtuous Touch? And if you say you can do EITHER Lay on Hands OR Ardent Strike once per encounter perhaps that takes care of including that one too) But generally, all of this is beside the issue. This thread isn't about discussing whether WotC's approach is right or wrong; it's about coming up with alternatives that doesn't require a constant stream of new book purchases. (Specifically for the PHB Paladin, I might add) [/QUOTE]

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