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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Luke" data-source="post: 1182304" data-attributes="member: 602">There seems to be some confusion here on what the actual rules are.Before I get into it, so you don't misinterpret where I'm coming from, I'll re-iterate that I've never personally used PCgen info for RoleplayingMaster imports, and I don't think that the RPM community that has created many datsets has either. In any case, RPM's ability to do in-game stuff means that it needs more mechanics than is typically used for progams that are only character generators.Rules- Anybody can do anything they like with any information - for their own private use.- If somebody shares information (like datsets), then it is legally considered as publishing, and you must conform to either the open gaming license or the d20 license (which, for clarity, we don't really need to distinguish between here).- Anybody that creates original RPG content declares what portion of their work is *open* and what portion of their work is *closed*.- *Closed* material is treated as being copyright to the original author, and can only re-published by others with special permission from the copyright owner (as where Wizards allow CMP to sell splatbook data).- *Open* material can be used by anyone, in any way that they like, as long as they conform to the ogl/d20 license. It is a violation of the license to scramble published open information, in any way that prevents it from being human readable and hence re-usable (by other programs, for example). [Scott may well pipe in here concerning binaries, but Wizards are clear on their position].Consequences of RulesPCGen, or any other program, violates the license if they create datasets of open material, and then try to prevent others from using it in any way that conforms to the license.It makes absolutley no difference whether or not a core RPG engine application is open source or not. It makes absolutely no difference how much effort any number of people put into creating the datasets. The fact is that those people got original material from other authors who have declared the content open and hence usable and republishable by all. It is illegal for a program to attempt to try and "close" the information, and hence retrict its use (where that use conforms to the licenses).There are actually 2 quite distinct and intertwined entities here. One entitiy is the dataset itself, and the other is a program that can make use of the dataset. What I'm hearing here, is something along the lines of "We created the datasets, and we only want you to be able to use it if you also use the program that we made to go along with it".Not legal. Not really in the spirit of open source and open gaming either. If you know your recent PCGen political history, you'll know that the program and the datasets are considered to be 2 quite different entities for legal/licensing purposes.I don't think that you'll be happy to hear this, but as far as rules and licensing are concerned, the PCGen program itself is almost irrelevant. The only thing important about the PCGen program itself is that it must take care not to compile in open RPG content.As far as the rules are concerned, its all about the datasets. If a thousand monkeys spend a thousand days typing in a thousand datasets of open content, then that can be freely used by anybody that obeys the licencing rules - including other commercial software. No crying about how much effort it took. You took other people's open content, and you must keep it open for others to use.On the other hand, the rules for *closed* content are quite different. Closed content is essentially treated as copyright to the author, and you only get to use it (copy it or republish it) with special permission from the owner.This is essentially what we have with CMP publishing the Wizards splat books.Wizards own the copyright, and give CMP permission to sell/publish it.As always, people who legally obtain the closed material can privately do whatever they like with it - including import it to other programs for their personal use.In the case of CMP datasets for Wizards splat books, I would say that morally there is still no case of "many people have put in lots of hours, so you can't use it in other programs".You see, CMP have already stated that they are *selling* the closed datasets, and that the money is used to *pay people* for their time and effort in producing them.ConclusionThe whole issue of "we don't want other programs freely using the information we spent hundreds of hours producing" simply falls apart.You can't have it both ways. Either give it away for free, or stop saying how unfair it is to make use of the efforts of others.If a particular dataset is open, then its illegal to stop others from using it, according to the license.If a particular datset is closed, then its being charged for, and the people doing the work are being compensated. In fact, the more programs that can use the datsets, the more money CMP makes from selling it. Why try and limit its usefulness, by restricting it to 1 or 2 programs?As I said, according to the rules, the program and the data have to be considered separately.What we seem to have here is a kind of a monopoly on certain data, and a monopolistic attitude of forcing people into using a particular program as well. This is anti-open source. What you need to remember is that iwhen other programs use the data, is still stays open and usable by others. Remember that the program and the data are 2 separate entities.Its no secret that whilst many love PCGen and are devoted to it, many others find it slow, or difficult to work with. Its also no secret that other software programs are not only character generators, but also offer very significantly advanced features in the areas of adventure building, in-game play, advanced wordprocessing, campaign building, and other types of generators.Do those with a monopoly on certain RPG information really want to force the rest of the RPG community to use a particular program with it? Do they really insist that the RPG community consider choosing bewteen their preferred program, and having that data available?If so, perhaps the PCGen silverbacks could at least suggest to the wider PCGen community that people such as Chris do not get "hate mail". After all, he doesn't deserve it, and the PCGen community is ultimately about an open source effort to make certain *datasets* available to the whole RPG community anyway.As an RPG community, we're better than "hate mail" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Regards,</blockquote>

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