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Message: <blockquote data-quote="soulcatcher" data-source="post: 1182521" data-attributes="member: 5940">Ok, this is  a whopper, I'll hit it piece by piece.Correct. GMGen is in the same position.TrueTrue, although the D20 licens is pretty unimportant to this conversation.  A person may also except small bits to be used ina 'fair use' manor via copyright law.TrueTruetrue, although the last part is interpretable, and not technically in the license - that is wizards stated desire for interpretation.So, with you so far.This is correct.  However, we still ahve a right to an opinion, and we still have the right to not allow people to use the PCGen name in their materials.  This comes from the OGL.  PCGen is PI, and it is a trademark owned by Bryan McRoberts.  Without his permission, no project may use that name, and no project may state that they are compatible with it.When we deal with publishers, we ASK them if we can use their sources, and we do or don't dependant upon their answer.  PCGen has not one shred of material that a publisher does not want to be there.  When publishers deal with each other, they have developed a culture of asking each other if they can use OGC.  None of this is necessary, but it's polite. We are asking for the same treatment.We are not attempting to 'close' the information.  But we are trying to recieve the same treatment that developers give any other publisher.we are asking our neighbors to play nicly.  I imagine the community would be happy to let other open source programs use the data, and possibly (though less likely) freeware.  The problem that some people have is that they are giving thier woprk  away for free, and some programmers want to take that information and make a profit off of that.  It's not illegal, but it is Immoral and Rude.that's fine.  yes.  and?Yes.  but we are also playing by the societal rules.  Rules that are not imposed by law, but instead by convention.  If other programmers want to treat us like garbage, and abuse our good will, they can.  And they can do it legally.YepYes, and?  I choose to make code and content available for the masses, and I don't ask for monetary compensation.  People who charge for their stuff have eery right to do so - but when they profiteer off of me, and use me to make a profit, that makes me justifyably angry.  I make free content for *users*, not to fatten someone elses wallet.If other software producers won't give us the same courtesy they give to publishers, I have every right to be angry.Yep.  I personally want to limit it via social (not legal) means because I believe open software is better for the community then closed software.  I don't want through my actions and efforts to encourage people to purchase a closed, proprietary application.  This is *my* belief. Feel free to disagree.Yes, they are.  And I would welcome any other open source applications to use the data.  I am sure that any person writing one that wanted to use the data would recieve not only teh data, but our appreciation for using it in new and interesting ways.  Competetion is good.  A marketplace of ideas is good.  And it is not anti open source to promote the usage of what I see as a superior development model over closed applications.  We have few legal weapons, but we CAN prevent other developers from using our name - by the rules, we CAN organize people, we CAN give our opinions.And we by no means have a monopoly on the data.  if people want to do the same thing we have, they can always contact the publishers, and get permission to do the same thign for their closed application.Yeah, that's where I come in.  GMGen is going head to head in this arena, and personally (though I'm biased) I think it's the best combat tracker out there.  PCGen dropped eh D20 license, and GMGen will soon (hopefully) be included as a part of PCGen. We will compete in this area, and both you and I and others will do our best to win.  I intend to see PCGen become or stay the best of breed Character generator, with GMGen as a best of breed GM's toolkit.  PCGen has it's flaws, but it is by users, for users, and that mean a lot.It's not a question of that.  First, remember that this is me, not the pcgen bod talking.  What I want is to see many many good, and open tools.  I ahve already offered to help at least one developer make thier program Open Source, and guide them through usage of the data.  I want to see many many programs using the pcgen data, I think that would be great.But I don't want to see some person swoop in, with no care for the community, and take all that work to make money for themselves.  I may not be able to legally prevent them, but I sure can try to shame them out of it.I agree, chris does not deserve any hate mail.  Interoperability is a totally different beast.  Users can use their data the way they want to, and if someone writes a program that can read in the users data, and take it where they want to, that's fine and dandy.I completly agree.  Hate mail is useless and damaging to dialogDevon JonesGMGen RegentPCGen BoDAnd again....me, not the bod here.</blockquote>

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