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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1805145" data-attributes="member: 5777">I have been in a number of threads about this as well, and I would have to say that my presented opinion works very well within those confines.Many people dislike and misunderstand cleave to begin with. A good portion of those keep it around anyway but then they feel other parts of the game should not interact with it.Then there are those who are not quite comfortable with aoo's, and so anything dealing with those is automatically suspect.Then there are those that feel that cleaves somehow punish someone else, instead of looking at it as someone who is highly trained simply taking advantage of a favorable environment.After that we have people who feel getting more than X number of attacks in a round should never happen no matter what.There are still other categories of people which fall into place who dislike each of these in general ways.Hence the comparison.You can disagree of course, that is your wont. However, I definately feel that it fits in very well in all of the threads I have been in for this particular discussion. Even the second post here basically states something that can be read as not liking cleave, although the poster says later that he actually likes cleave that is not how his post reads.No more than a nearly unbounded other ways in the system that just so happen to make things unfavorable for something.It isnt about being 'punished' so much as someone who has the proper training being able to take advantage of a favorable situation.Not really any different than catching an opponent that you didnt even know was there in your fireball because you wanted to hit his buddy.Although this particular situation takes a whole lot more effort.Once again though: The opponent must draw an aoo (generally not likely), he must be in your melee range (ie provoking an aoo from you), the big bad must also be within your melee range, you must hit, you must have the cleave feat, you must succeed in the conditions for cleave (if this is 'easy' then the minion was meant to be fodder anyway, this feat eats fodder, that is what it is 'for'), you get an attack on the big bad (assuming you still can, there are ways around this, but very few), you must hit (yet another chance to miss).This is not a very common occurance and all it does is let a player take advantage of his feat choices and training in order to gain a decent, but incredibly unreliable, benefit.Where is the problem again? Fairly minor boost because of its incredible unlikelyness to happen. If something gets you a free hit on the big bad less than 1% of the time for the cost of a feat I certainly see no big problem here.</blockquote>

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