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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1805255" data-attributes="member: 5777">In this case it isnt about letting ones guard down, it is about circumstances causeing your opponent to gain some sort of advantage, with proper training.I still dont see any problem with that.Also, this isnt a case of 'whoops, you are all dead', merely changing circumstances. This happens all of the time, all over the game. Sometimes things just happen that are bad or effect things poorly (even simple things like someone casting a darkness spell).Going once again to the example of the invisible guy next to his buddy. He got hit with the fireball simply because his buddy was there. Should he be immune to the fireball because the opponent does not know that the invisible guy is there?Also, if the pc's (and I am trying to make it fair for both sides, so I dont like focusing only on one side or the other for this sort of thing if at all possible) are running around the battle field in the single digits then they already have serious problems, but it sounds like they will be far enough apart not to have to worry about cleaves anyway.Still though, we are talking about a single attack in very, very strict circumstances. Where is the imbalance?As for being silly, that is why I said that rkanodia's post sounded like a rant against cleave more than anything else. It is simply a direct effect of something that is already very difficult to visualize. So, something difficult to visualize has an extra effect coming on under very exacting circumstances. I think it is simly incredibly abstract and cinematic more than realistic. Same with cleave to begin with really. So, sure, it can seem 'silly', but mainly only because it is difficult to visualize. Then again, I have a hard time with someone being able to make a fireball appear out of no where that moves out in a ball but exerts no force. Pure insanity. But, it is a game, and a very abstract one at that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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