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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Baron Von StarBlade" data-source="post: 232940" data-attributes="member: 1522">Okay I misunderstood what you meant by being 25 feet away. . I thought you meant 25 feet away from the Monster <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> However A and B are still in the threatened area of M so they are subject to attacks no matter how or when they occur. The last two sentences are my point. The victim of an attack has no say so in whether or not he is a target. Greatly simplifing you are stating that the victim has control over whether or not he becomes the target of an attack. Specificially, saying that the victim (A in your example)  has no control over getting hit from an AoO Cleave therefore he shouldn't be a target of an attack.   Yeah you are assuming that M does more damage on a cleave than a normal attack. Since in Example 1 M needs more than 1 hit to drop A. However in Example 2 M only needs 1 hit to drop A. With all things being equal, A would have died in round 1 of the first example.   However you are dodging my question. How is Combat 2 any different from this example Combat 3 (A & B vs. M)round 1A hits MB hits MM hits B, cleave on AM hits A, killing A  In Example 3 the only difference is B got a pot shot on M (possibly killing M). However the outcome is the same & A still has no control of being the target of a cleave.   It seems you are insuating that a Target of a cleave lets his guard down only during the opponents attack action, because any other time they can't be targeted by a cleave attempt.  That is unlogical; if anything they would be more defensive when the opponent was attacking and less offensive during the rest of the round.</blockquote>

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