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Cleave and AoO
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 233198" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I don't know where to begin...</p><p></p><p>OK, in D&D a single attack roll generally represents multiple attacks, parries, fients, dodges, etc. If the roll is successful, one of those gets through. If your BAB is high enough for itterative attacks, maybe more than one gets through (you're not actually hitting more often, just more effectively). If your enemy does something collosally stupid, then one of those attacks that wouldn't normally have gotten through, does. That's an AoO.</p><p></p><p>AoOs are provoked, courtesy of the victim, not initiated by the attacker. It'd be absurd to allow a Cleave off an AoO into a non-AoO-provoking target. (However, that doesn't mean an AoO that drops a target should never allow you to Cleave...)</p><p></p><p>Cleave also depends on the idea of one attack roll equating to multiple attacks. When you drop an enemy and you have Cleave, the kill was so easy it didn't really 'use up' your potential, successful attack for the round - you dropped him instantly on the first swing or so. With Great Cleave, it's more so. The attack that dropped the enemy effectively becomes a freebie, and you didn't use up your attack for the round - so you can use it on someone else. Obviously, you can only use that attack on someone you could have attacked /instead/ of the one you dropped. When you're the agressor, that's anyone in your threatened area. The attack you make is effectively the same one that dropped the victim - all the same modifiers, and the same kind of attack. </p><p></p><p>Thus, if you cleave off an AoO, it's still an AoO. You can't take an AoO on someone who hasn't provoked one. So, unless you have several enemies all provoking AoOs at the same time (for instance, when several try to get past your reach or grapple you or move past you), you don't have a legitimate target for the cleave.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 233198, member: 996"] I don't know where to begin... OK, in D&D a single attack roll generally represents multiple attacks, parries, fients, dodges, etc. If the roll is successful, one of those gets through. If your BAB is high enough for itterative attacks, maybe more than one gets through (you're not actually hitting more often, just more effectively). If your enemy does something collosally stupid, then one of those attacks that wouldn't normally have gotten through, does. That's an AoO. AoOs are provoked, courtesy of the victim, not initiated by the attacker. It'd be absurd to allow a Cleave off an AoO into a non-AoO-provoking target. (However, that doesn't mean an AoO that drops a target should never allow you to Cleave...) Cleave also depends on the idea of one attack roll equating to multiple attacks. When you drop an enemy and you have Cleave, the kill was so easy it didn't really 'use up' your potential, successful attack for the round - you dropped him instantly on the first swing or so. With Great Cleave, it's more so. The attack that dropped the enemy effectively becomes a freebie, and you didn't use up your attack for the round - so you can use it on someone else. Obviously, you can only use that attack on someone you could have attacked /instead/ of the one you dropped. When you're the agressor, that's anyone in your threatened area. The attack you make is effectively the same one that dropped the victim - all the same modifiers, and the same kind of attack. Thus, if you cleave off an AoO, it's still an AoO. You can't take an AoO on someone who hasn't provoked one. So, unless you have several enemies all provoking AoOs at the same time (for instance, when several try to get past your reach or grapple you or move past you), you don't have a legitimate target for the cleave. [/QUOTE]
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