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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 51851" data-attributes="member: 996">Another way to conceptualize Cleave is that the kill was so easy it doesn't even count as an action.&nbsp; A character launches multiple attacks every round of melee, but only one or a few have a real chance of landing.&nbsp; When you Cleave, you can think of it as one of these incidental attacks as killing the target, leaving you able to attack another.Though it's going beyond 'interpretation' and into the realm of a rule-0, this can solve the quandry of how Cleave mixes with AoOs and how Great Cleave mixes with Whirlwind Attack.&nbsp; The idea is that, when you Cleave, the bonus attack can only be used against someone you were entitled to attack instead of the one you dropped, had you chosen not to attack him.For the first, if you drop an opponent with an AoO you can Cleave into someone else: if they also provoked an AoO, and you're still on the same AoO.&nbsp; If you only get one AoO, but have Great Cleave, and a small army of Kobolds willfully try to run past you, you might be able to take them all down.&nbsp; OTOH, if there's an Ogre standing next you as the Kobolds run by, meleeing you normally (not provoking AoOs) none of those Cleave attacks can go into it.For the second, when you Whirlwind and drop an opponent, you can Cleave into anyone you haven't already hit with the Whirlwind (they're all 'legitimate' targets).&nbsp; By Cleaving into an enemy, you also make him the next target of the Whirlwind (the idea being that, if you hadn't attacked the character you dropped you would have attacked him, ergo, he's your next Whirlwind target).&nbsp; If he survives the Cleave, you Whirlwind him, and, move on to the next available whirlwind victim.&nbsp; If you drop the next guy, you can't go back to someone you've already whirlwinded with the Cleave.&nbsp; If you drop the very last guy you whirlwind, you don't actually get to Cleave (no legitimate targets left).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 51851, member: 996"] Another way to conceptualize Cleave is that the kill was so easy it doesn't even count as an action. A character launches multiple attacks every round of melee, but only one or a few have a real chance of landing. When you Cleave, you can think of it as one of these incidental attacks as killing the target, leaving you able to attack another. Though it's going beyond 'interpretation' and into the realm of a rule-0, this can solve the quandry of how Cleave mixes with AoOs and how Great Cleave mixes with Whirlwind Attack. The idea is that, when you Cleave, the bonus attack can only be used against someone you were entitled to attack instead of the one you dropped, had you chosen not to attack him. For the first, if you drop an opponent with an AoO you can Cleave into someone else: if they also provoked an AoO, and you're still on the same AoO. If you only get one AoO, but have Great Cleave, and a small army of Kobolds willfully try to run past you, you might be able to take them all down. OTOH, if there's an Ogre standing next you as the Kobolds run by, meleeing you normally (not provoking AoOs) none of those Cleave attacks can go into it. For the second, when you Whirlwind and drop an opponent, you can Cleave into anyone you haven't already hit with the Whirlwind (they're all 'legitimate' targets). By Cleaving into an enemy, you also make him the next target of the Whirlwind (the idea being that, if you hadn't attacked the character you dropped you would have attacked him, ergo, he's your next Whirlwind target). If he survives the Cleave, you Whirlwind him, and, move on to the next available whirlwind victim. If you drop the next guy, you can't go back to someone you've already whirlwinded with the Cleave. If you drop the very last guy you whirlwind, you don't actually get to Cleave (no legitimate targets left). [/QUOTE]

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