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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Cleave and Attacks of Opportunity
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<blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 1314224" data-attributes="member: 8439"><p>I took a little look at the 3.5 Srd and I'm with herman in thinking the "aoo=cleave" decision isn't as airtight as has been assumed. The section says "Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack..." I don't think that the "whenever" in cleave has to overrule any and all other rules. If an attack of opportunity is defined as a single melee attack, AND a person feels personally that allowing followup attacks on AoO is a bad idea, I see the text as supporting that interpretation, and we are not in the realm of houserules here. The "This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity..." only backs up the line of thought that an attack of opportunity is a single blow, which cannot be expanded by use of improved trip, cleave, various insane lasher abilities or whathaveyou...</p><p></p><p>Has there been an official or even semi official ruling on this question, or is it just assumed that the cleave wording trumps other rules? (note that in the cleave/truestrike thread, the sage was quoted as specificly saying that the cleave "same attack bonus" wording is subordinate to the spell "one attack" wording)</p><p></p><p>Once we are in the realm of houserules, its worth noting that in the Stargate book (and I assume the spycraft rules its based on) they went to the bother of defining a "Single Attack" as what is given by various feats and special abilities (though they remove AoOs entirely) and specificly stating that you cannot use any ability to turn it into more than one attack. I found this very gratifying and refreshing, as I have seen certain feat/class combos used to practicly take full attack actions from one AoO, and not only the potential for abuse but simple logic has me restricting it IMC to "quick hits, no follow through".</p><p></p><p>Kahuna Burger</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kahuna Burger, post: 1314224, member: 8439"] I took a little look at the 3.5 Srd and I'm with herman in thinking the "aoo=cleave" decision isn't as airtight as has been assumed. The section says "Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack..." I don't think that the "whenever" in cleave has to overrule any and all other rules. If an attack of opportunity is defined as a single melee attack, AND a person feels personally that allowing followup attacks on AoO is a bad idea, I see the text as supporting that interpretation, and we are not in the realm of houserules here. The "This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity..." only backs up the line of thought that an attack of opportunity is a single blow, which cannot be expanded by use of improved trip, cleave, various insane lasher abilities or whathaveyou... Has there been an official or even semi official ruling on this question, or is it just assumed that the cleave wording trumps other rules? (note that in the cleave/truestrike thread, the sage was quoted as specificly saying that the cleave "same attack bonus" wording is subordinate to the spell "one attack" wording) Once we are in the realm of houserules, its worth noting that in the Stargate book (and I assume the spycraft rules its based on) they went to the bother of defining a "Single Attack" as what is given by various feats and special abilities (though they remove AoOs entirely) and specificly stating that you cannot use any ability to turn it into more than one attack. I found this very gratifying and refreshing, as I have seen certain feat/class combos used to practicly take full attack actions from one AoO, and not only the potential for abuse but simple logic has me restricting it IMC to "quick hits, no follow through". Kahuna Burger [/QUOTE]
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