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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 626092" data-attributes="member: 1656">Wait, what?  This is not the question I was asking, but I'm going to jump on your answer anyway... you're saying now that the Cleave attack is made at the same bonus as initial attack, except that TWF penalties don't apply?  You think a Charge bonus or a Smite Evil bonus carries into the Cleave, but TWF doesn't?  You make no sense.But your argument is that when Cleave references "the same bonuses as the attack", that it refers to every property of the attack object.  I'm asking why the "-10 penalty to the attack[/i] doesn't apply to every property - including Damage bonus - as well.-Hyp.</blockquote>