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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mal Malenkirk" data-source="post: 4151997" data-attributes="member: 834">A few thoughts. For the literraly minded, a bag of rat was never a bag of rat.  Typically it's a summon monster III used to get 1D4+1 weak monster (i.e Fiendish dire rat).  These would then be used to attack a fighter with a reach weapon, great cleave and combat reflex so that he can kill them and gain several free attack against a big bad monster.  A legal and efficient tactic but an awful violation of the spirit of the game.For the 4e sceptic who hadn't noticed, the bag of rat trick is dead.  There is never going to be a scheme where you can generate artificial target for the fighter and it will be a better strategy than just attacking the damn monster instead.  The prime reason for it is that cleave can't be performed as an AoO.Now, back to the OP, attacking a minion in order to hurt the boss is a valid tactic.  But is it better to hit the tougher monster and kill a minion on the same attack with cleave, or kill the minions and do 3 points of damage to the tough monster?  Hmmm.  You might sometime choose the second option if the boss has a much higher AC than the minions but it'll usually be better to do the first.  And the fact that it isn't clear which is better at all time is what makes it interesting from a gameplay POV.Concerning the monsters, is it better to bring your minion or not? Well, Cleave only works on an adjacent opponent.  Up to 4 monsters can attack without being adjacent to each other.  And you could have minions five minions attacking without being adjacent with the brute.  All in all, bring you minion.  Even the fighter wants to use them against the brute, he'll probably only get one ore two shot that way.</blockquote>

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