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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 3372720" data-attributes="member: 3424">Let's consider two 4th-level fighters, A and C. For a start, assume C has Cleave.Situation 1In a normal round of combat, A gets one attack roll against C and C gets one attack roll against A. If A doesn't do anything to provoke an AOO, that one attack roll against A is all that C gets in one round of combat.Now, we introduce a weak opponent B, who is an ally of A fighting against C.Situation 2If C attacks B, drops him and Cleaves into A, C still only gets one attack roll against A in that round. C's Cleave feat effectively allowed him to attack both A and B, but C still doesn't get more than one attack roll against A in a round of combat.Situation 3Now, let's say that instead of attacking B, C attacked A instead. On B's turn, he does something that provokes an AOO from C (disarm, sunder, whatever). C takes his AOO against B, and by the rules, he is allowed to Cleave into A. Now, C has made two attack rolls against A in a single round of combat (one regular attack, and one Cleave off an AOO). A is worse off under this scenario than when he was fighting C alone (Situation 1 - one normal attack) or when C Cleaved A on his turn (Situation 2 - one Cleave off a normal attack).Some people are OK with this. They feel that it is "right" that A is made to "pay" for B's mistake, or that B's death "distracted" A and made him drop his defences, effectively subjecting him to an AOO even though he did nothing to provoke one.Situation 4This example is slightly more extreme. Assume that C also has Dexterity 18, Combat Reflexes and Great Cleave. In addition to B, A has four other weak allies: B1, B2, B3, and B4, who also provoke AOOs from C. For every person that C drops with an AOO, he can make an additional attack roll against A with Great Cleave. C could potentially make six attack rolls against A in one round of combat. Of course, you can choose to see this as a feature. C needs high ability scores, four feats (including the prerequisites) and DM approval (or incompetence) to pull this off. However, I choose to see this as a bug because it seems to me that disadvantage suffered by A is out of proportion to the mistakes made by his allies.If the 3 wimpy things weren't there, the opponent could have attacked me three times in the round (Situation 1). If the opponent attacked the 3 wimpy things on his turn and Cleaved into me, I still got attacked no more than three times (Situation 2). I'm no worse off than Situation 1. If the opponent attacked me three times on his turn, and the 3 wimpy things did something to provoke AOOs from the opponent, and the opponent Cleaved into me three more times (Situation 3/4), I would have been attacked a total of six times in the round, as if I had provoked three AOOs from the opponent. If I actually had done nothing in the round to provoke any AOOs, I think I would be rather upset.</blockquote>

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