Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 3382757" data-attributes="member: 3424">Good point. I never liked the one attack roll = one swing model, anyway.That's another distraction-based argument, so it's time for the invisible dire lemmings again. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The extra melee attack is not the issue for me. Using A, B and C again:I have no problems with C dropping B and Cleaving into A on his turn. Since C could have ignored B and attacked A anyway, A isn't any worse off in terms of the number of attack rolls C makes against him even if C happened to drop B as well.I wouldn't even have a problem if A and B both provoked AOOs from C, and C dropped B and Cleaved into A with his AOO. The same reason applies. Since C could have ignored B and used his AOO on A, A isn't any worse off in terms of the number of attack rolls C makes against him even if C happened to drop B as well.Where I would have a problem is if A did not provoke an AOO from C, but B did, and C dropped B with his AOO and Cleaved into A. This gives C an extra attack roll against A which is effectively an AOO against A even though A did nothing to provoke one. Of course, this is allowed because of the way that Cleave is worded in the rules. If I were to re-write Cleave for my campaign, I would define it as the ability to make attacks so powerful that they drop weak foes effortlessly. In game terms, the effect of the feat would be that the first time you drop an opponent in a round, the attack you used to drop an opponent effectively becomes a non-action, and you can continue to take actions as if you had not used an action to drop that opponent. This means that you cannot Cleave off an AOO, but if your AOO drops an opponent, it does not count towards the number of AOOs you make in a round. It also means that you can do some things that you cannot currently do with Cleave, e.g. drop a weak foe and then charge another opponent.I guess what I'm saying is, I have no problems with Cleave granting an extra attack, but the extra attack should be made against the weak foe you dropped, and not against the stronger foe you happen to be fighting at the same time.</blockquote>

Verification