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Cleave question (AoO)
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 1274186" data-attributes="member: 3051"><p>Because none of the things need for the combo are epic, maybe? The fact that the situation came up at epic levels is irrelevant to the discussion, I've had the same thing happen with a level 10 Psychic warrior when attacked by an army of kobolds. Using powers I managed to get a Reach of 15' and a DEX of 24; I ended up killing 30 or so in one turn.</p><p></p><p>There's two separate issues here:</p><p>1> AoOs, and by extension their Cleaves, are at the full attack bonus, while the "normal" attacks get progressively less likely to hit. So, finding a way to take a ton of extra attacks at full AB really ramps up your damage beyond what two low-level Feats should give.</p><p>2> There's a conceptual flaw. AoOs occur when the target drops his guard while doing some other action, so the attacker sneaks an extra attack through. Cleaves happen when you hit a target so hard that the blow continues through to the second target. However, if you allow Cleave on an AoO, then the second target is receiving an attack he wouldn't otherwise take simply because his friend left an opening. Since this second person didn't do anything to draw an AoO, the cleaving blow shouldn't get through his defenses any more than if the first target hadn't existed.</p><p></p><p>Add in Whirlwind Attack and a Bucket of Snails and it gets even more entertaining.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 1274186, member: 3051"] Because none of the things need for the combo are epic, maybe? The fact that the situation came up at epic levels is irrelevant to the discussion, I've had the same thing happen with a level 10 Psychic warrior when attacked by an army of kobolds. Using powers I managed to get a Reach of 15' and a DEX of 24; I ended up killing 30 or so in one turn. There's two separate issues here: 1> AoOs, and by extension their Cleaves, are at the full attack bonus, while the "normal" attacks get progressively less likely to hit. So, finding a way to take a ton of extra attacks at full AB really ramps up your damage beyond what two low-level Feats should give. 2> There's a conceptual flaw. AoOs occur when the target drops his guard while doing some other action, so the attacker sneaks an extra attack through. Cleaves happen when you hit a target so hard that the blow continues through to the second target. However, if you allow Cleave on an AoO, then the second target is receiving an attack he wouldn't otherwise take simply because his friend left an opening. Since this second person didn't do anything to draw an AoO, the cleaving blow shouldn't get through his defenses any more than if the first target hadn't existed. Add in Whirlwind Attack and a Bucket of Snails and it gets even more entertaining. [/QUOTE]
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