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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1887878" data-attributes="member: 2011">Precisely.It is exactly like this.Why should person A let down his guard because person B imagines that he does?Why should person A let down his guard because person B kills person C?No difference.The fireball example is irrelevant to the topic at hand and just a smokescreen.Yes, other people's actions affect ours in combat.But, saying that Cleave works on AoOs is like saying that you can get hit by an arrow because an archer was able to bounce it off your buddy standing 300 feet away from you and he damaged both of you with it.You are trying to justify a GAME MECHANIC.You are not trying to justify something that really makes sense in real combat.Cleave makes very little sense as is in real combat. It's just a mechanics driven silly little feat that someone thought &quot;Hey, wouldn't this be cool?&quot;It's like Power Attack. The additional damage of Power Attack should be subdual damage, not real damage.That way, you cannot Power Attack and slash apart an Adamantine Door with your dinky little iron longsword. A feat should not really be able to give you the ability to do 2x or 3x the amount of damage that your strength and weapon allows. IMO.In my last campaign, it was a little bothersome when PCs could Power Attack through a stone wall in a matter of moments. Some rules just do not make sense and shouldn't be justified.PS. While hijacking this thread to Power Attack, it is also stupid that it cannot be used for light weapons. They tried to fix the nonsensical portion of this in 3.5 in a nonsensical manner.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 1887878, member: 2011"] Precisely. It is exactly like this. Why should person A let down his guard because person B imagines that he does? Why should person A let down his guard because person B kills person C? No difference. The fireball example is irrelevant to the topic at hand and just a smokescreen. Yes, other people's actions affect ours in combat. But, saying that Cleave works on AoOs is like saying that you can get hit by an arrow because an archer was able to bounce it off your buddy standing 300 feet away from you and he damaged both of you with it. You are trying to justify a GAME MECHANIC. You are not trying to justify something that really makes sense in real combat. Cleave makes very little sense as is in real combat. It's just a mechanics driven silly little feat that someone thought "Hey, wouldn't this be cool?" It's like Power Attack. The additional damage of Power Attack should be subdual damage, not real damage. That way, you cannot Power Attack and slash apart an Adamantine Door with your dinky little iron longsword. A feat should not really be able to give you the ability to do 2x or 3x the amount of damage that your strength and weapon allows. IMO. In my last campaign, it was a little bothersome when PCs could Power Attack through a stone wall in a matter of moments. Some rules just do not make sense and shouldn't be justified. PS. While hijacking this thread to Power Attack, it is also stupid that it cannot be used for light weapons. They tried to fix the nonsensical portion of this in 3.5 in a nonsensical manner. [/QUOTE]

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