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Cleaving after an AoO
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<blockquote data-quote="Abraxas" data-source="post: 1889867" data-attributes="member: 1266"><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px">From the description of Great Cleave . . .</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>"Benefit:</strong> This feat works like Cleave, except that there is no limit to the number of times you can use it per round."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>No, it explains why AoOs might occur that could result in multiple AoO/Cleave combos - not just by the caster's fighter ally but by the BBEG.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Thats not the point - the summoned creatures aren't under the caster's complete control unless he can communicate with them in some way - and creatures with animal intelligence aren't going to avoid AoOs.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Not if your summoning multiple weak creatures that are going to die in one hit regardless, and need a 20 to even hit the BBEG - seems like a pretty good use of a low level spell slot.</p><p> </p><p>Unless they are intelligent the summoned creatures may never even get into a position to provide a flanking bonus. It is OK to sacrifice them in an attempt to get into a flanking position, but its not OK to sacrifice them to provide your great cleaving fighter ally more attacks at the BBEG at his full attack bonus (which has a better chance to hit than iterative attacks with a flanking bonus)? How I sacrifice them should be my choice as the caster. If you think them dying in combat is a bad thing don't summon them for combat - but that seems to be the express purpose of the summoning spells, considering they immediately attack your enemies even if you can't communicate with them.</p><p> </p><p>The intent of the caster is to stop the BBEG with the resources at hand.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Never said they were. Disagreement with the AoO/Cleave routine has nothing to do with fair.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>So remember to have your wizard summon a bunch of 1 hit die mooks to run past your fighter (who has Combat Reflexes and Great Cleave) so he gets the most (and smartest) use out of those feats. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p>As Ridley's Cohort said, disallowing AoO/Cleave is a reasonable patch to this loophole for those of us that find AoO/Cleaves unreasonable.</p><p> </p><p>Its a heck of a lot more reasonable than disallowing Improved Crit and Keen to stack. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p>YMMV</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Abraxas, post: 1889867, member: 1266"] [font=00CelestiaAntiqua][size=1]From the description of Great Cleave . . .[/size][/font] [font=00CelestiaAntiqua][size=1][b]"Benefit:[/b] This feat works like Cleave, except that there is no limit to the number of times you can use it per round." [/size][/font] No, it explains why AoOs might occur that could result in multiple AoO/Cleave combos - not just by the caster's fighter ally but by the BBEG. Thats not the point - the summoned creatures aren't under the caster's complete control unless he can communicate with them in some way - and creatures with animal intelligence aren't going to avoid AoOs. Not if your summoning multiple weak creatures that are going to die in one hit regardless, and need a 20 to even hit the BBEG - seems like a pretty good use of a low level spell slot. Unless they are intelligent the summoned creatures may never even get into a position to provide a flanking bonus. It is OK to sacrifice them in an attempt to get into a flanking position, but its not OK to sacrifice them to provide your great cleaving fighter ally more attacks at the BBEG at his full attack bonus (which has a better chance to hit than iterative attacks with a flanking bonus)? How I sacrifice them should be my choice as the caster. If you think them dying in combat is a bad thing don't summon them for combat - but that seems to be the express purpose of the summoning spells, considering they immediately attack your enemies even if you can't communicate with them. The intent of the caster is to stop the BBEG with the resources at hand. Never said they were. Disagreement with the AoO/Cleave routine has nothing to do with fair. So remember to have your wizard summon a bunch of 1 hit die mooks to run past your fighter (who has Combat Reflexes and Great Cleave) so he gets the most (and smartest) use out of those feats. :) As Ridley's Cohort said, disallowing AoO/Cleave is a reasonable patch to this loophole for those of us that find AoO/Cleaves unreasonable. Its a heck of a lot more reasonable than disallowing Improved Crit and Keen to stack. :) YMMV [/QUOTE]
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