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Cleaving after an AoO
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<blockquote data-quote="nhl_1997" data-source="post: 1890207" data-attributes="member: 22380"><p>First:</p><p>The easiest solution if AOO + cleave is causing a problem, as noted numerous times previously, is to rule 0 it. It is my opinion that people should follow the spirit of the rules rather than the letter of the rules. If players are abusing the AOO + cleave, then it should be disallowed. However, if it just comes up in the natural flow of combat, then I would allow it whether or not it's realistic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Second:</p><p>For those of you who like to "precisely" follow the rules, the "friendly" summoned monsters + AOO + cleave does not work. The attacks of opportunity section states "An <strong>enemy</strong> that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you."</p><p></p><p>If a summoned critter is attacking the BBEG, then it is not your enemy. Therefore, there is no attack of opportunity. If the wizard ordered the critter to attack the party fighter, then there are some serious alignment issues occuring. I think they had better duke it out after finishing the BBEG. If the wizard ordered the critter to attack the fighter in order to set up the cleave, then it's not really an enemy.</p><p></p><p>As mentioned earlier, that line of logic is a bit ridiculous since AOOs "should" not rely upon friend or foe. Afterall, either the creature "let its guard down" or it didn't. However, following the rules to the letter, either the summoned critter is not an enemy, or there are at least three distinct groups in this combat (true, the fighter and wizard might team up for a bit, but let them duke it out afterwords.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Third:</p><p>Other than the friendly summoned monster abuse (and the ignorant mook tactics) arguments, I get the feeling that the main problem with AOO + cleave is the realism. </p><p></p><p></p><p>con: "Why should I get hit because my idiot goblin friend drank a potion"</p><p></p><p>pro: "Well, the fighter was able to follow through with attack against the idiot goblin"</p><p></p><p>con: "You mean the fighter would not have been able to take that exact same swing to hit me if the goblin were not there and about to die?"</p><p></p><p>pro: "Your goblin friend momentairily distracted you through his complete idiocy."</p><p></p><p>con: "But my goblin friend was invisible."</p><p></p><p>pro: "So? I drank a potion of See Invisibility five minutes ago. I could see him."</p><p></p><p>con: "Yeah, but I could not see him, so how could he have distracted me???"</p><p></p><p>pro: "The blood appearing on my blade from thin air is what distracted you."</p><p></p><p>con: "But I failed my spot check."</p><p></p><p>(etc.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>This whole situation arises due to the fundamental nature of D&D combat: turns. The rules are based on people taking their actions one at a time. Unfortunately, no matter how much window dressing the authors provide (such as people constantly defending themselves and looking for oppotunities to strike.... an AOO represents such an oppotunity), 3.5D&D combat is simply not going to be "realistic." Either accept that fact or make adjustments as you see fit to make the game more enjoyable.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In answer to the original question, yes cleaving off of an AOO is legal within the rules. That issue was only momentairly in doubt back somewhere on p.2 or p.3 of this thread.</p><p></p><p>The real answer: do whatever is most fun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nhl_1997, post: 1890207, member: 22380"] First: The easiest solution if AOO + cleave is causing a problem, as noted numerous times previously, is to rule 0 it. It is my opinion that people should follow the spirit of the rules rather than the letter of the rules. If players are abusing the AOO + cleave, then it should be disallowed. However, if it just comes up in the natural flow of combat, then I would allow it whether or not it's realistic. Second: For those of you who like to "precisely" follow the rules, the "friendly" summoned monsters + AOO + cleave does not work. The attacks of opportunity section states "An [b]enemy[/b] that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you." If a summoned critter is attacking the BBEG, then it is not your enemy. Therefore, there is no attack of opportunity. If the wizard ordered the critter to attack the party fighter, then there are some serious alignment issues occuring. I think they had better duke it out after finishing the BBEG. If the wizard ordered the critter to attack the fighter in order to set up the cleave, then it's not really an enemy. As mentioned earlier, that line of logic is a bit ridiculous since AOOs "should" not rely upon friend or foe. Afterall, either the creature "let its guard down" or it didn't. However, following the rules to the letter, either the summoned critter is not an enemy, or there are at least three distinct groups in this combat (true, the fighter and wizard might team up for a bit, but let them duke it out afterwords.) Third: Other than the friendly summoned monster abuse (and the ignorant mook tactics) arguments, I get the feeling that the main problem with AOO + cleave is the realism. con: "Why should I get hit because my idiot goblin friend drank a potion" pro: "Well, the fighter was able to follow through with attack against the idiot goblin" con: "You mean the fighter would not have been able to take that exact same swing to hit me if the goblin were not there and about to die?" pro: "Your goblin friend momentairily distracted you through his complete idiocy." con: "But my goblin friend was invisible." pro: "So? I drank a potion of See Invisibility five minutes ago. I could see him." con: "Yeah, but I could not see him, so how could he have distracted me???" pro: "The blood appearing on my blade from thin air is what distracted you." con: "But I failed my spot check." (etc.) This whole situation arises due to the fundamental nature of D&D combat: turns. The rules are based on people taking their actions one at a time. Unfortunately, no matter how much window dressing the authors provide (such as people constantly defending themselves and looking for oppotunities to strike.... an AOO represents such an oppotunity), 3.5D&D combat is simply not going to be "realistic." Either accept that fact or make adjustments as you see fit to make the game more enjoyable. In answer to the original question, yes cleaving off of an AOO is legal within the rules. That issue was only momentairly in doubt back somewhere on p.2 or p.3 of this thread. The real answer: do whatever is most fun. [/QUOTE]
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