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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 1902252" data-attributes="member: 3424">Well, I'm a person who has no problems with Cleave or Great Cleave, and no problems with AOOs, but I do have a problem with Cleaving off an AOO.I suppose my problem is this: To me, an AOO is an extra chance to attack a combatant that occurs because he lowered his defences. A combatant who does not lower his defences should not be subject to any extra attacks that are only possible because of lowered defences.Similarly, to me, Cleave and Great Cleave are feats that make weak opponents irrelevant. A high-level fighter with four iterative attacks per round who is fighting a powerful opponent and several weak ones could aim all his four attacks at the powerful opponent. However, Cleave and Great Cleave allow him to cut down the weak opponents and Cleave off them to attack others, including the powerful one. However, used in this way, Cleave and Great Cleave don't give the fighter any more attacks against any single opponent than if he had focused all his attention on him. The powerful opponent is no worse off no matter how many minions he surrounds himself with. They are at worst irrelevant, and at best, they could soak up some of the attacks that would have been directed at him.The difference between a normal Cleave and Cleaving off an AOO is the difference between being irrelevant and being a liability. Cleaving off an AOO means that some of the weaker opponents could actually become liabilities, if they provoke AOOs from the fighter. The powerful opponent could be attacked one or more additional times per round at the fighter's best attack bonus, even though he has not lowered his defences, simply because his minions have. As a DM, I could avoid the issue entirely by making sure that nobody provokes AOOs, but I feel that I shouldn't have to.At the end of the day, Cleaving off an AOO just doesn't gel with my sense of internal logic, so I wouldn't allow it. It does with others, and so they do. That's all there is to it.</blockquote>

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