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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SHARK" data-source="post: 178586" data-attributes="member: 1131">Greetings!Voadam, excellent response! Your "Broken, not shafted!" made me laugh!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Yes, you've made some fine points. I agree with you that maybe there should be different kinds of "standard" clerics, too! You see, I have a diverse group of players, who've been playing for ages, and for example, they tend to focus on things like this:Some play clerics, and though they have all of those *combat abilities* and such that you correctly mentioned, some don't seem to care about that really. They want to know why they can't preach to the street gathering, or why they suck so bad when they attempt to do research at the Royal Library, or why when one of their followers seeks them out for wisdom and counsel, and they seek to refer to *non-existant*<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> knowledge skills and such, they say "huh?...um...See, since my skills suck, you'll have to seek counseling from someone else..."<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Do you see what I'm saying?<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Something else I have noticed--in order for the various characters to be able to dive into a broad range of skills that accurately represent their characters, and their experiences, they have to consistently dump bonus skill points into intelligence. Mechanically speaking, this works, but there is a...how shall I say it?--a "story problem" when all the characters start looking the same when they all have 14, 16, or 18 Intelligences! It's not really that they want to be "geniuses" or have extra spells for wizards even, or what have you, but it is a dire necessity to gain more skills, you know?Perhaps it's my fault as a DM. In the campaign, I've been told, there are so many important skills that everyone has to develop, or they're screwed. Skills that everyone seems to need a lot are as follows:(1) Diplomacy(2) Gather Information(3) Sense Motive(4) Perform(5) Listen(6) Spot(7) Knowledge: Everything, varies by character.(8) Bluff(9) Ride(10) Swim(11) Climb(12) Wilderness LoreThe players have remarked that as they meet various dignitaries and hob-knob with the elite and powerful, *everyone* needs to have decent scores in these skills, or you have the Fighter inadvertantly insulting the Prince, and the whole party gets hammered. Not literally, of course, but it has been seen that because many of the characters don't have decent ranks in these skills, when many of the interactions throughout the adventures don't so much require that everyone is a combat machine, but it is likely to require that everyone be able to hear things, see things, know things, and be able to make good impressions,--they fail in learning what needs to be learned, or making friends with someone important. But they can all do well in a dungeon room full of Trolls!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Do you see what I'm saying? I accept that there are certain combat stats, mechanics, and abilities that are all balanced properly, and are necessary to survive fighting in the dungeon, but there seem to be some problems when everyone is comprehensively immersed into an intense social/political environment, where other skills are essential to succeed in the adventure. I hope I've made sense!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Semper Fidelis,SHARK</blockquote>

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