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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8844693" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>So my group has generally considered clerics a bad class in 5e. Its just so....boring, so incredibly boring. Every player who has played a cleric in my game at one point considered changing to something else.</p><p></p><p>And this version, its a step forward and a few steps back.</p><p></p><p><strong>The Good</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Holy Order is a good change, though it needs some cleanup. I love that clerics can be "the best" at religion now. It is awkward though that a 1st level cleric that takes religion can't technically take holy order to get the bonus in religion without losing a skill proficiency. I am sure that's not the intention, that's just a wording cleanup. This is by far the best change.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prayer of Healing is good now. I am assuming this is planned with the continuing removal of short rest abilities in favor of long rest ones, otherwise this could get broken fast. But as one part natural heal, one part divine, I think its a solid bonus now.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Channel Divinity at 1st level: Giving all clerics a little free healing is not a bad thing at all.</li> </ul><p><strong>The Bad</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its not enough change. The cleric is still so damn generic, it still feels like a platform for bless, healing, and spirit guardians.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The new smite turning is more generically useful, but its lost all of its cool. The old ability lets you destroy swarms of undead with a single flick of your clerical finger, that was awesome....and it was a great hook for a DM to make a clerical play feel cool. The new one is just more generic, and that is the kill word for the cleric, the cleric DOES NOT NEED TO BE MORE GENERIC! As an example, a 5th level cleric can currently mow down a hoard of a zombies. To the equivalent with this new cleric, you would need to be 13th level (+5 prof bonus), and its still no guarantee you roll the 22 damage you need on a 5d8 to do the job.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I really appreciate they continue to work on guidance (which needs to be reigned in), but 10 feet range....come on. You are effectively expected the party to walk with a cleric and every other party member huddled next to them like some weird celebrity with their encourage. 10 feet is stupidly close when you are not in a combat situation.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They killed Spiritual Weapon: Yes its scaler is better now, and that's great. But THE REASON this spell was good was the lack of concentration, one of the few spells the cleric could use to augment combat while they were blessing or spiritual gardening....and now that's gone. Very bad change.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The cleric lost huge amount of spell preparation flexibility. First off, you get less spells prepared at the lowest levels (1st and 2nd level). But now you are rigid in what spell levels you have to prepare, whereas before you could prepare a bunch of high level spells, a bunch of low levels, or anything in between. This is worse in almost every way.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 8844693, member: 5889"] So my group has generally considered clerics a bad class in 5e. Its just so....boring, so incredibly boring. Every player who has played a cleric in my game at one point considered changing to something else. And this version, its a step forward and a few steps back. [B]The Good[/B] [LIST] [*]Holy Order is a good change, though it needs some cleanup. I love that clerics can be "the best" at religion now. It is awkward though that a 1st level cleric that takes religion can't technically take holy order to get the bonus in religion without losing a skill proficiency. I am sure that's not the intention, that's just a wording cleanup. This is by far the best change. [*]Prayer of Healing is good now. I am assuming this is planned with the continuing removal of short rest abilities in favor of long rest ones, otherwise this could get broken fast. But as one part natural heal, one part divine, I think its a solid bonus now. [*]Channel Divinity at 1st level: Giving all clerics a little free healing is not a bad thing at all. [/LIST] [B]The Bad[/B] [LIST] [*]Its not enough change. The cleric is still so damn generic, it still feels like a platform for bless, healing, and spirit guardians. [*]The new smite turning is more generically useful, but its lost all of its cool. The old ability lets you destroy swarms of undead with a single flick of your clerical finger, that was awesome....and it was a great hook for a DM to make a clerical play feel cool. The new one is just more generic, and that is the kill word for the cleric, the cleric DOES NOT NEED TO BE MORE GENERIC! As an example, a 5th level cleric can currently mow down a hoard of a zombies. To the equivalent with this new cleric, you would need to be 13th level (+5 prof bonus), and its still no guarantee you roll the 22 damage you need on a 5d8 to do the job. [*]I really appreciate they continue to work on guidance (which needs to be reigned in), but 10 feet range....come on. You are effectively expected the party to walk with a cleric and every other party member huddled next to them like some weird celebrity with their encourage. 10 feet is stupidly close when you are not in a combat situation. [*]They killed Spiritual Weapon: Yes its scaler is better now, and that's great. But THE REASON this spell was good was the lack of concentration, one of the few spells the cleric could use to augment combat while they were blessing or spiritual gardening....and now that's gone. Very bad change. [*]The cleric lost huge amount of spell preparation flexibility. First off, you get less spells prepared at the lowest levels (1st and 2nd level). But now you are rigid in what spell levels you have to prepare, whereas before you could prepare a bunch of high level spells, a bunch of low levels, or anything in between. This is worse in almost every way. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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