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<blockquote data-quote="Lojak" data-source="post: 6781204" data-attributes="member: 12470">I tend to agree that the cleric class needs something and I like a lot of these ideas.&nbsp;&nbsp; In particular, I think you are on the right track with breaking your two archetypes into the traditional armored martial cleric and then more of a cloistered cleric type of caster.However, I think you might have overpowered them a bit.&nbsp; In particular, I worry that a &quot;Favored Soul&quot; (Maybe Templar for this?) is a paladin with 9 levels of casting which might be too much.&nbsp;&nbsp; He gets all armor, all weapons, two attacks, and a pseudo smite ability (though admittedly not until level 12).&nbsp; One of the things I have found is that healing spells are weak overall in 5e.&nbsp; Its almost always a better decision to spend your action doing damage than healing.&nbsp; The only exception is when the heal will bring someone up from unconscious.&nbsp; Further, spending an entire turn healing is boring for some players.&nbsp; I have considered some house rules of my own to change how this works (using bonus actions to &quot;heal&quot; by allowing the target to spend HD) but I suppose that is another thread and discussion.&nbsp; However, I think that the weakness of healing in 5e is part of why clerics seem less attractive to play.Have you tried this in actual play?&nbsp; How is it working?&nbsp; Does it make the cleric player more engaged with the class?&nbsp; Does it feel like it does too much damage for the amount of support it brings?&nbsp; Honestly, I do not think I have had a player even play a cleric yet in our group which, to me, signals a problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lojak, post: 6781204, member: 12470"] I tend to agree that the cleric class needs something and I like a lot of these ideas. In particular, I think you are on the right track with breaking your two archetypes into the traditional armored martial cleric and then more of a cloistered cleric type of caster. However, I think you might have overpowered them a bit. In particular, I worry that a "Favored Soul" (Maybe Templar for this?) is a paladin with 9 levels of casting which might be too much. He gets all armor, all weapons, two attacks, and a pseudo smite ability (though admittedly not until level 12). One of the things I have found is that healing spells are weak overall in 5e. Its almost always a better decision to spend your action doing damage than healing. The only exception is when the heal will bring someone up from unconscious. Further, spending an entire turn healing is boring for some players. I have considered some house rules of my own to change how this works (using bonus actions to "heal" by allowing the target to spend HD) but I suppose that is another thread and discussion. However, I think that the weakness of healing in 5e is part of why clerics seem less attractive to play. Have you tried this in actual play? How is it working? Does it make the cleric player more engaged with the class? Does it feel like it does too much damage for the amount of support it brings? Honestly, I do not think I have had a player even play a cleric yet in our group which, to me, signals a problem. [/QUOTE]

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