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Cleric Redesign
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6781739" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>Did you notice that 6 domains out of 8 grant <strong>Divine Strike</strong>, which is a significant damage bonus? It's +1d8 at level 8th increased to +2d8 at level 14th, and it's supposed to compensate for the lack of Extra Attacks (it's less good, but still pretty good). This is once per turn, so I am not sure that your Templar ability is actually better, since it grants additional attacks but is limited per day.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are replacing ONE default domain (which grants 10 spells) with TWO domains that now grant 5 spells each. I am not sure this substantially increases differentiation in practice... in theory it does because instead of 8 domains you now have 56 combinations of 2 domains, but at the same time now every cleric chooses 2 of them so it is also likely that there'll be a popular domain or two chosen very often as second domain.</p><p></p><p>Also what happened to Channel Divinity, are you restricting this now to Turn Undead only? Because domains also differente clerics even further thanks to the special uses of channel divinity!</p><p></p><p>It's ok to split the domain spells lists in half and let clerics choose two, but if you really want to to differentiate <em>substantially</em>, I would:</p><p></p><p>1) extend the domain spells to 9th level (so basically 18 spells per PHB domain instead of 10, or 9 instead of 5 if you use your domains)</p><p>2) cut the common cleric spell lists in half*</p><p></p><p>Now <em>that</em> will seriously have an effect against "samey" clerics.</p><p></p><p>*I'd especially remove all spells that have specific effects that can remove/bypass one adventuring problem entirely. For example, how about removing all these from the Cleric list, and fold them strictly into domains:</p><p></p><p>Create or Destroy Water, Detect Magic, Continual Flame, Find Traps, Locate Object, Silence, Zone of Truth, Animate Dead, Clairvoyance, Create Food and Water, Daylight, Meld into Stone, Tongues, Water Walk, Control Water, Divination, Freedom of Movement, Locate Creature, Stone Shape, Contagion, Insect Plague, Legend Lore, Raise Dead, Scrying, Blade Barrier, Create Undead, Find the Path, Harm, True Seeing, Word of Recall, Etherealness, Firestorm, Plane Shift, Resurrection, Antimagic Field, Control Weather, Earthquake, Astral Projection, True Resurrection.</p><p></p><p>In 3e we did something like that specifically because we wanted to differentiate clerics of various religions more. We also used this with critically popular spells such as Harm and Heal (they are not that critical in 5e anymore). We had Harm available only to clerics with the Destruction domain, and Heal only to clerics of the Healing domain, so you had to give up other precious domain-only spells to get them!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6781739, member: 1465"] Did you notice that 6 domains out of 8 grant [B]Divine Strike[/B], which is a significant damage bonus? It's +1d8 at level 8th increased to +2d8 at level 14th, and it's supposed to compensate for the lack of Extra Attacks (it's less good, but still pretty good). This is once per turn, so I am not sure that your Templar ability is actually better, since it grants additional attacks but is limited per day. You are replacing ONE default domain (which grants 10 spells) with TWO domains that now grant 5 spells each. I am not sure this substantially increases differentiation in practice... in theory it does because instead of 8 domains you now have 56 combinations of 2 domains, but at the same time now every cleric chooses 2 of them so it is also likely that there'll be a popular domain or two chosen very often as second domain. Also what happened to Channel Divinity, are you restricting this now to Turn Undead only? Because domains also differente clerics even further thanks to the special uses of channel divinity! It's ok to split the domain spells lists in half and let clerics choose two, but if you really want to to differentiate [I]substantially[/I], I would: 1) extend the domain spells to 9th level (so basically 18 spells per PHB domain instead of 10, or 9 instead of 5 if you use your domains) 2) cut the common cleric spell lists in half* Now [I]that[/I] will seriously have an effect against "samey" clerics. *I'd especially remove all spells that have specific effects that can remove/bypass one adventuring problem entirely. For example, how about removing all these from the Cleric list, and fold them strictly into domains: Create or Destroy Water, Detect Magic, Continual Flame, Find Traps, Locate Object, Silence, Zone of Truth, Animate Dead, Clairvoyance, Create Food and Water, Daylight, Meld into Stone, Tongues, Water Walk, Control Water, Divination, Freedom of Movement, Locate Creature, Stone Shape, Contagion, Insect Plague, Legend Lore, Raise Dead, Scrying, Blade Barrier, Create Undead, Find the Path, Harm, True Seeing, Word of Recall, Etherealness, Firestorm, Plane Shift, Resurrection, Antimagic Field, Control Weather, Earthquake, Astral Projection, True Resurrection. In 3e we did something like that specifically because we wanted to differentiate clerics of various religions more. We also used this with critically popular spells such as Harm and Heal (they are not that critical in 5e anymore). We had Harm available only to clerics with the Destruction domain, and Heal only to clerics of the Healing domain, so you had to give up other precious domain-only spells to get them! [/QUOTE]
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