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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dmnqwk" data-source="post: 6781782" data-attributes="member: 6804204">I was hesitant to parse the Cleric spell list too much into domains, not because I don't agree it might improve things, but because I was concerned it may overly complicate the basic cleric class. I agree with another thread about removing the "divine casters seem to know every spell" and changing them to spells known, similar to how Rangers no longer know everything, so it's definitely an extension of creating a more robust cleric system.On the topic of Clerics don't feel offensive enough, I believe that the game designers see Clerics as a "healer" in an edition of the game which doesn't directly support pure healers. Since Bards and Paladins got access to better healing, as well as Druids being put on an even footing for basic healing, I think Clerics need to be taken away from the idea they are healbots, and put on a path of equality with other caster classes (who you must agree have far superior options for cantrip damage, with the exception of Bards who have the choice to take one as a Magical Secret in the College of Lore, or simply get Extra Attack as a Valor Bard.)The reason for splitting Domains was to grant 2 separate 1st level domain powers, which I'm sure you remember existed in 3rd edition, but ultimately control cantrip access at 1st level (Cantrips are WAY more powerful than people realise at first glance, by the time you hit Extra Attack mode any class with an inferior cantrip for damage can feel useless when forced to use "default" options. Lore Bards, at 5th level, have a poor 2d4 cantrip access while Clerics 2d8 rely on DEXTERITY saving throws, instead of attack rolls versus the amazing Firebolt of 2d10, or a Druid's 2d12 poison spray (Admittedly on a con save, but they also have 2d6 thorn whip which works with spike growth so nicely, or produce flame).But more than simply giving Clerics stuff, it's the fact that Clerics do need some kind of identity which allows them the freedom granted by other Classes' archetypes. As you say, most Cleric offensive powers fall into the category of either bonus radiant damage, or bonus cantrip damage. Each domain is not really granting you a basic method of damage dealing, when resources are spent, that offers a reason to have Domains. Wizards (and Sorcs) both offer their diversity with a multitude of elemental cantrips.. but yet again someone felt Clerics "are only allowed Radiant damage", they couldn't even be bothered to give Chill Touch (a necrotic damage spell) to Clerics... purporting a terrible myth that clerics are healbots.Ultimately If they continue with this terrible ideology that Clerics are goody goody healers, it's about time Paladin was removed as a class and moved to being a subtype of Cleric, with the other Archetype literally called "Healbot".</blockquote>

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