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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 2848224" data-attributes="member: 7635">This is a facile answer. Unlike the real world, when people are favoured by a god in D&D, it makes them more powerful in the temporal world. Unlike reality, in D&D, there are objectively verifyable signs of someone being favoured by a god.Powerful, yes. AND Influential. All the reason why the people would LOVE them, and a temporal church would either embrace them or fear their obviously superior faith power.As for veryfiable? Only because the word "cleric" is on there sheet. In a world of wizards, demons, and shapechangers, how is magic a be-all-end-all answer to faith? The wandering prophet COULD be a cleric of my god, but it could ALSO be a demon tempting mortals into sin?That is a totally inaccurate characterization of medieval society. What, exactly, did ignorance and superstition stop?Real medival society? Advances in medicine, arts, science, equality by race/gender, literacy, trade/economic growth, etc. D&D is played in a very "21st century mindset" slapped across a "12th century world". Nothing wrong with that, it works because we ARE 21st cent people. What I was getting at was a setting not so enlightened as D&D presents itself.But my original question still stands: how could the mainstream church still stand? In D&D, an army with the ability to heal itself and an army lacking that ability are not equally matched. Again, It wouldn't be one church with an embargo on healing. Both armies would lack access to magical healing, cept MAYBE army A has a single cleric who acts as a chaplain. He'd get bogged down pretty quickly healing an entire army. The same with wizards; armed warfare looks more historical without artiliery mage on the battlefield. Maybe Army B has a court wizard with fireball, but not a devision of warmages ready to go.How could the only major social institution with no magic come out on top when competing with all kinds of other groups that do have magic?I think the whole setting has to dial-back magic for the idea to work. Institutions like churches, kingdoms, and armies would HAVE to be able to stand without much magical aid. I think your idea of holy man as keeper of occult mysteries is a good archetype. What I disagree with is your idea that more mainstream religious entities would lack magic.As the idea has evolved, I've realized it fits a lower-magic style setting than D&D normally gives. One with few true wizards or clerics and where magic in general is distrusted. Such a setting would be a fun, but require some tweaking to work. While the original idea was "hey, what if there WASN'T a spellcasting priest in every town", it evolved into an idea where clerics are both loved and feared for the gifts they have, making divine magic a double-edged sword and ironically, the closer to your god, the farther from your church.(And yes, I just finished a book on the Knights Templar, if you can't read the sub-text)</blockquote>

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