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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 2226631" data-attributes="member: 4134">I side with you. The gods don't save their follower's backsides personally all the time (except if the goddess in question is named Mystra and the follower is Elminster, of course, but then, you can argue that lovers look out for each other ;-)). But that's not really the point. That poor guy did just endure months of torture, which is a tremendous strain on body, mind, soul and spirit. He felt left alone by his god. Things like this can change person.If that were true, than there would have been a sooner rescue.The fact that we're talking about Lathander. Lathander's neither evil nor stern. Lolth does things like that to her followers all the time, for she's evil and chaotic. Ilmater might do things like that, since he's the deity of suffering. Even deities like Tyr or Helm might do it, for they demand blind obedience. But Lathander is a gentle soul. He tests the hearts of his followers in different ways. (For example, he might let one of his followers fail in a athletic contest even though he's the best sportsman in there, because he didn't train hard enough. By thinking he was good enough for the rest, he stopped becoming better. Only if he tried hard he'd become the best again.) I'm sorry? First sign of anguish? He was tortured for months. After he had to witness most of his comrades die. The fact that he survived this shows that he's all but squeamish.Again, we aren't talking about "the first sign of difficulty". Tyr would see that this soul has suffered much and now burns with the desire to right the wrong done to him. I'd say that he'll receive him with open hands.And the gods have to earn the devotion of their followers. After Ao saw that the gods had become careless, he first cast them down onto the Prime, and after the Time of Troubles was over, he declared that the power of a deity is directly dependant on his followers, so they actually have to vie for them. That's also the reason why only deities can grant divine magic now. Okay, this is another situation entirely. Especially considering that evil characters aren't allowed in "normal" campaigns, and this counts twice  the homicidal maniac type you describe here. In that case, the DM would have to take that player to the side and explain to him that this will make an NPC out of the character, plus in this case the Church Inquisitors and Consecrated Harriers will hunt him down, for he has torned evil and really betrayed his church.This doesn't have anything to do with the original case.Oh yes he does, at least in the Forgotten Realms, where this campaign obviously takes place. In the realms, you simply cannot cast divine magic without a divine patron. All magic comes from without, and if the source of your magic isn't available to you, you stand there spell-less.I don't like crippling PC's either - my initial reactions in this topic should have made this clear as a diamond - but it is the very logical thing to do.Note that it won't be for long, though: As soon as he finds a new patron, he has access to magic again. In game terms, I'd say that he will be without his spells for one mission, which should span about one game session, while he proves his worth and sincerity to the new god. That should be bearable (he's practically turned into a warrior for this time, and not really helpless - most clerics have decent martial prowess even without their magic). There might be a period consisting solely of social interaction, when he seeks for a new deity (if he hasn't already made that choice - in our example here, he has), vistiting several temples and listening to the priests. After that, there will be a quest for his new deity. Maybe he will be without his magic until then, maybe he will be lent some magic item (like a wand or staff) to simulate just some spells (like healing, or stuff that really fits the deity and his/her portfolio) to better succeed in his mission. Maybe they first test him with magic and interrogation whether his motives are sincere (of course, he has to submit to this magic), or place him unter a geas, and then grant him his magic on probation. If he should abandon his quest, he'd lose his magical ability again, along with his chance to be adopted by this deity - or any other, unless there was a really good reason for abandoning his quest.Yes, there might be some ill will toward the cleric, as this cleric or that Morninglord will hold a grudge, or consider him an infidel, but I really doubt that this would turn violent or nasty in any way. It's just not the way of Lathander and his faithful.It also depends on the circumstances, and crippling penalties cannot be fun for any player, especially if said player considers his actions justified.</blockquote>

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