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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 2227522" data-attributes="member: 4134">this is completely in the new deity's realm. No deity can ever force people to worship them. Free will cannot be taken away with this (sure, they can threaten and blackmail, but in the end, it's the worshippers decision). So the old one cannot say "you still have to worship me or you have to worship this or that deity now". But the new one can demand more or less anything from the cleric in order to grant him magic.I say that the change of faith in instantaneous. But I think you mean "how long before he's a full-fledged cleric?" I say, if you strip the cleric of most or even all magic until he has proven himself, a quest spanning one game session tops. If you grant him full spellcasting, but control him in other ways, like a quest spell, then it can be longer.If he would have been rescued before his faith and spirit were broken, it would have been soon enough. Now we don't know how rigorous the torturing was, or how good the cleric was at bearing the pain, but "several months" was too much. Of course, the rescuers might have had nothing to do with the deity in question. I don't really think that the gods actions or lack thereof are the problem here: The problem is that the guy was mentally scarred, which induced a change of personality. Lathander may not have been to blame for it all, but I still think that the decision was out of order, and I think that the gods involved will understand it - Lathander because he's benevolent and Tyr because he gets another priest out of this.Come to think of it, if the Lathanderites hear of the trials their former colleague went through, they might not even be hostile towards him.Well, in theory, Lathander could have sent a vision to the leading priest in the temple nearest the goblin lair. They would have assembled or hired a party of adventurers (there's enough of them around) and send them to the rescue. Depending on the circumstances, this could be done in a week.Wouldn't put it past him. Well, a cleric is only a human(oid), too. They might be hardier and have more willpower than others, but even they have their limits.I could see it either way: The cleric with legendary piety and endless willpower, who could spend a century being tortured by demons and still hold true to his god, or the cleric who has commandable, but limited resolve. Both are viable cleric models.Again, we are talking about prolonged torture, and Lathander. Maybe the priest has asked himself what his errors were. Maybe he asked himself over and over again, for a whole week. A month. But finally he came to the conclusion that he has done nothing wrong - at least nothing so cruel and evil as to justify the ordeal he's going through, not if Lathander is the judge.Of course, there is the question whether a tortured soul will find peace.And since the deities are dependant on living followers, not just those already in their respective afterlives, they should take care of them both in life and death.Like others have already said: It's not just about the number of the followers, but also about your portfolio. Plus I think it's not just about quantity, but also about quality.So the goddess of love will be strengthened by every love that blooms in the realms. She will also be strengthened by everyone offering her small prayers (like someone in love who offers her an orison for luck), but not as much as she gets from someone who chooses her as patron deity (everyone has to choose a patron deity, who has a special place in his/her heart, but you can also offer prayers to other deities in the right circumstances, like to Tyr for justice, Tempus before a battle, Tymora when you take a chance, or Waukeen before mercantile endeavour). And she'll get even more for a cleric, divine champion, cleric, and most for a heartwarden and True Believer.Sure, this doesn't mean that the gods have to beg people for their worship, but ignoring followers and their blights is a surefire way to oblivion and divine impotence.</blockquote>

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