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General Tabletop Discussion
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Cleric vs Paladin: Concepts and Mechanical realisation
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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 7865705" data-attributes="member: 7015698"><p>I don't think the distinction for the mechanics NEED to exist in the world. In 4e, for exemple, I had a Dragonborn Cleric who was, in story, a Paladin in the same order as the party's Paladin. He had, however, a different role, being a former drill sergeant who had escaped the destruction of the order's stronghold with a small group of rookies before rejoining the Paladin and a larger group of refugees. He also had that feat that gave him a once per encounter Divine Challenge for some marking.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not a fan of the 5e Cleric. It's support aspect feels diluted and limited. There's no way for the Cleric to offer some type of support without a Spell Slot. And usually it's either a heal or Bless. Bless is good but also SUUUUPER boring. The Bard, for exemple, at least gets Vicious Mockery to offer some constant debuffs.</p><p></p><p>There's just not enough tactical levers for the Cleric to pull on.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. I think the Cleric is too straight and basic for what it tries to be. The Melee Clerics don't get extra attack and Divine Strike only comes in later so from 5th to 8th level it's more efficient for them to be slinging Sacred Flame (and ONLY that because that's the only attack cantrip in the PHB) instead of using their Martial Weapons. Furthermore, the Domain entirely decides your play style.</p><p></p><p>I've been saying that the Cleric should have been more similar to the mix-and-match style of the Warlock where you pick your play style (melee or caster-blaster, maybe even adding a Divine Archer style later) and THEN pick your domain to add theming and flavour. I don't think the 5e Cleric is a BAD class, it's just not one I enjoy much and one I feel where they didn't push the design far enough.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>4e ended up with more support for the WIS Cleric than for the STR cleric (MAD Classes ended up a mistake in the long run really) but it also introduced the Invoker class, the robe-wearing Caster centric Divine Controller class for those who wanted to throw Divine Wrath and Radiant Lasers at enemies from a distance. Maybe 5e could have also split the warrior cleric and divine caster apart?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Kaamelott trumpets intensify</em></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]wiI_IuzwV1o[/MEDIA]</p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]GjodgOx0Mbg[/MEDIA]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 7865705, member: 7015698"] I don't think the distinction for the mechanics NEED to exist in the world. In 4e, for exemple, I had a Dragonborn Cleric who was, in story, a Paladin in the same order as the party's Paladin. He had, however, a different role, being a former drill sergeant who had escaped the destruction of the order's stronghold with a small group of rookies before rejoining the Paladin and a larger group of refugees. He also had that feat that gave him a once per encounter Divine Challenge for some marking. I'm not a fan of the 5e Cleric. It's support aspect feels diluted and limited. There's no way for the Cleric to offer some type of support without a Spell Slot. And usually it's either a heal or Bless. Bless is good but also SUUUUPER boring. The Bard, for exemple, at least gets Vicious Mockery to offer some constant debuffs. There's just not enough tactical levers for the Cleric to pull on. Yes. I think the Cleric is too straight and basic for what it tries to be. The Melee Clerics don't get extra attack and Divine Strike only comes in later so from 5th to 8th level it's more efficient for them to be slinging Sacred Flame (and ONLY that because that's the only attack cantrip in the PHB) instead of using their Martial Weapons. Furthermore, the Domain entirely decides your play style. I've been saying that the Cleric should have been more similar to the mix-and-match style of the Warlock where you pick your play style (melee or caster-blaster, maybe even adding a Divine Archer style later) and THEN pick your domain to add theming and flavour. I don't think the 5e Cleric is a BAD class, it's just not one I enjoy much and one I feel where they didn't push the design far enough. 4e ended up with more support for the WIS Cleric than for the STR cleric (MAD Classes ended up a mistake in the long run really) but it also introduced the Invoker class, the robe-wearing Caster centric Divine Controller class for those who wanted to throw Divine Wrath and Radiant Lasers at enemies from a distance. Maybe 5e could have also split the warrior cleric and divine caster apart? [I]Kaamelott trumpets intensify[/I] [MEDIA=youtube]wiI_IuzwV1o[/MEDIA] [MEDIA=youtube]GjodgOx0Mbg[/MEDIA] [/QUOTE]
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