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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6859271" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Aren't you engaged in special pleading here? As evidence for high Cha, you've given the fact that they attract followers and work miracles. In response to the observation that those things aren't evidence for high Charisma, and that many classical prophets were unpopular to boot, you observe that it's okay for the game to obey archetypes even if those archetypes don't exist in real life. At this point your argument that miracle workers have high Charisma is merely axiomatic.I'm not going to tell you that you can't have high-Cha miracle workers any more than I'm going to tell you that you can't have high-Cha wizards (Rasputin). But the argument so far advanced in favor of Charisma being a primary stat for holy men is pretty weak. The best argument for it is Planescape-style "gods who need followers in order to have power, and clerics in order to gain followers," but in that case you're clearly in gamist territory with no real-world analogue whatsoever.</blockquote>