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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6859304" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't think so - but I'm probably not the best-placed person to judge!I don't think high CHA = popular. AD&D paladins have extremely high CHA - at least 17 - but are clearly not popular with evil high priests, despotic nobles, orc hordes etc.High CHA does equate to some ability to command authority, generate a following, impress one's enemies with one's resolution, etc - think of Saladin gifting King Richard with a warhorse - and I think that is part of the miracle-worker archetype. St Bernard of Clairvaux, for instance, attracted followers beseeching miracles as he toured the south of France investigating the "heretics". St Francis, at least in the movie version (I'm thinking of Brother Sun, Sister Moon), also attracts followers in virtue of his divinely-inspired charisma.Personally, I just don't see a very strong connection between this archetype and insight/perception/judgment - unless you are talking about metaphorical insight into the will of the divine - whereas I do see a fairly strong connection to force of personality.If you equate prophets and miracle workers to hermits, oracles and the like then you will probably disagree with me. Personally I see the latter as different from the miracle worker trope, and I think WIS does suit them.In D&D terms I would put traditional clerics and paladins in the first (CHA) basket, and would put druids, original OA shukenja and wu jen, invokers, monks and some "specialty priests" in the second (WIS) basket.As I've said, I'm distinguishing two categories of the "holy man" archetype: the prophet and miracle worker; and the oracle and hermit.I guess that argument works for Planescape, but it's not one that moves me as I'm not remotely a Planescape fan, and prefer an approach whereby divinity shapes mortal fortunes rather than vice versa.</blockquote>

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