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Message: <blockquote data-quote="procproc" data-source="post: 6863248" data-attributes="member: 6791328">I *do* do all four -- I think you have to to make D&D work at all. And if it bothered me that much, I'd just run a different system. I'm really just arguing an academic point, here, which arrives at a similar conclusion to what OP had staked out. That kind of discussion is the point of the forum, no?I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to win -- if you re-read my posts, I think you'll find that my main point is that Wisdom and Charisma both have entirely reasonable justifications as a casting stat for clerics. Many people in this thread have taken the position that Chr as the cleric's casting stat is nonsensical, and I think that just doesn't hold up under examination. I'm not claiming that Chr is the *more* reasonable option -- though I'm sympathetic to the OP's feeling that it seems more reasonable to them -- but I think Wis holds its place primarily due to tradition and not due to any kind of objective justifiability. I'm aware of the "Chr for evangelizing" argument earlier in the thread. I didn't make that argument, and while I can see the idea as relevant to a character concept, I don't believe it's at all necessary for the cleric as a class.</blockquote>