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Clerics are a popular class for elves...Really?
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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3954366" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>It's similar to the reason that wizards don't work well as PCs. In most stories, wizards can cast a spell to solve almost every problem. If they need to get over a pit they can fly or shapechange into a bird. If enemies attack them they have fireballs and magic shields. They can unlock doors with a wave of their hands, etc.</p><p></p><p>Tolkien elves have a similar problem in that they can do almost anything. They are stronger, faster, more agile, smarter, wiser, more magical, more beautiful, more skilled, longer lived, and just purely better in all ways. It is implied that any time there is a battle that if the army had consisted of elves they could half won in half the time with half the losses with half the number of troops.</p><p></p><p>Both of these situations are solved very easily in stories where the exact numbers of things are not known. If you don't know exactly how many spells a wizard has or what the limit of his powers are it is easy to write into the story that he runs out of spells at the exact moment he is needed most and the hero of the story then has to make an amazing leap over an impossible to jump pit to prove how good he is. It's a good story and it's very dramatic.</p><p></p><p>You can do the same thing with Super-Elves. They are as good as you want them to be. So, when you need them to lose they lose. When you need to show how awesome they are they win dramatically.</p><p></p><p>However, in a role playing game where you have actual numbers for things you can't use these methods to fix balance problems without being extremely arbitrary and making the numbers mean nothing. If you write down on your character sheet that you can cast fly 3 times today and you reach that pit, you won't have the dramatic scene with the hero attempting to leap over it. The wizard will fly him over easily and it will be simple.</p><p></p><p>You can't just have the Super-Elf lose this battle because the hero is supposed to be the one to save the day when the elf is more accurate than everyone else and is harder to hit than everyone else. The numbers decide the outcome, not the story.</p><p></p><p>In a story you can choose to focus on what you want. In a role playing game the focus goes wherever the rules and the players take it. And powerful characters always take the spotlight over everyone else. If there is a level 2 rogue and level 20 wizard in the same group, the wizard will be able to make the rogue look like a bumbling idiot over and over again:</p><p></p><p>Rogue: I sneak ahead and try to scout out the area.</p><p>Wizard: What the heck are you doing? You realize this is a dragon's lair right? Dragons have such great hearing and eyesight that they'll be able to spot you and hear you every single time they try even when you are trying your best. And when it spots you, it'll be able to tear you limb from limb within seconds of spotting you. On the other hand, I can make myself completely invisible so it has 0 chance of spotting me, and completely silent so it has 0 chance of hearing me. If there are any locks I can cast a spell that has 100% chance of unlocking them whereas you are likely unable to open them even if you roll a natural 20 since expensive treasure is normally protected with DC 30 locks. Luckily, I also have the ability to kill the dragon dead with one spell. It'll take you minutes of continuously attacking it before you'd kill it. It might actually just be a good idea for you to stay at home while I defeat the dragon. If you eat your dinner by the time I get home I may share some of its treasure with you. That's a good little rogue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 3954366, member: 5143"] It's similar to the reason that wizards don't work well as PCs. In most stories, wizards can cast a spell to solve almost every problem. If they need to get over a pit they can fly or shapechange into a bird. If enemies attack them they have fireballs and magic shields. They can unlock doors with a wave of their hands, etc. Tolkien elves have a similar problem in that they can do almost anything. They are stronger, faster, more agile, smarter, wiser, more magical, more beautiful, more skilled, longer lived, and just purely better in all ways. It is implied that any time there is a battle that if the army had consisted of elves they could half won in half the time with half the losses with half the number of troops. Both of these situations are solved very easily in stories where the exact numbers of things are not known. If you don't know exactly how many spells a wizard has or what the limit of his powers are it is easy to write into the story that he runs out of spells at the exact moment he is needed most and the hero of the story then has to make an amazing leap over an impossible to jump pit to prove how good he is. It's a good story and it's very dramatic. You can do the same thing with Super-Elves. They are as good as you want them to be. So, when you need them to lose they lose. When you need to show how awesome they are they win dramatically. However, in a role playing game where you have actual numbers for things you can't use these methods to fix balance problems without being extremely arbitrary and making the numbers mean nothing. If you write down on your character sheet that you can cast fly 3 times today and you reach that pit, you won't have the dramatic scene with the hero attempting to leap over it. The wizard will fly him over easily and it will be simple. You can't just have the Super-Elf lose this battle because the hero is supposed to be the one to save the day when the elf is more accurate than everyone else and is harder to hit than everyone else. The numbers decide the outcome, not the story. In a story you can choose to focus on what you want. In a role playing game the focus goes wherever the rules and the players take it. And powerful characters always take the spotlight over everyone else. If there is a level 2 rogue and level 20 wizard in the same group, the wizard will be able to make the rogue look like a bumbling idiot over and over again: Rogue: I sneak ahead and try to scout out the area. Wizard: What the heck are you doing? You realize this is a dragon's lair right? Dragons have such great hearing and eyesight that they'll be able to spot you and hear you every single time they try even when you are trying your best. And when it spots you, it'll be able to tear you limb from limb within seconds of spotting you. On the other hand, I can make myself completely invisible so it has 0 chance of spotting me, and completely silent so it has 0 chance of hearing me. If there are any locks I can cast a spell that has 100% chance of unlocking them whereas you are likely unable to open them even if you roll a natural 20 since expensive treasure is normally protected with DC 30 locks. Luckily, I also have the ability to kill the dragon dead with one spell. It'll take you minutes of continuously attacking it before you'd kill it. It might actually just be a good idea for you to stay at home while I defeat the dragon. If you eat your dinner by the time I get home I may share some of its treasure with you. That's a good little rogue. [/QUOTE]
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