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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Viktyr Gehrig" data-source="post: 2627851" data-attributes="member: 9249">Yeah-- it's something to watch for. I've been allowing Clerics to memorize their Domain spells as many times as they have spell slots for-- because allowing them to only memorize one iteration of a spell that's supposed to be central to their faith seems a little... wrong to me. I'm actually a little concerned that I'm beefing the Cleric up too much with this. If I have to, I can cut them down to 1/2 BAB and d6 HD. They already got a little taste of the nerf-stick when I took away everyone's free Heavy Armor proficiency.The first question I asked about the spells on the Universal list was, "If someone can't do this, can you still call them a priest?"If you can't bless your allies or create the most basic paraphenalia of your religion, you ain't a priest.The restoration and raise dead spell chains were also the most basic spells that everyone wants the Cleric to have. They also have XP components and are only useful occasionally.They work great for Druids, who have a variety of useful spells that they can use every day. They don't work very well at all for Clerics, who have a bunch of spells that are useful only in limited situations-- but are almost essential in those situations.How many spontaneous casters take spells with XP components? Ever?Hate hate hate.They don't get the Cleric spells they need, they get too many of the spells they don't, and they get too many other abilities, including straight numerical advantages.They're also supposed to have a more "close and personal" relationship with their patron, but they don't even get the most feature that differentiates the various gods from each other-- their Domains.Nifft's idea is to convert a number of Cleric spells into spell-like abilities granted as class features-- so that Clerics don't get them if they choose to take a Prestige Class, and so they don't have to be memorized or occupy spell slots.I'm proposing a spontaneous Cleric model that has elements in common with both Sorceror and Warmage. They get a very limited number of freely-chosen Spells Known, on top of one Universal list and several Domain lists. The extra Domains also give them extra class abilities and encourage Clerics to stick to their base class.I don't think either of us is nerfing the Cleric-- if anything, I'm increasing it considerably.What I'm reading (or think I'm reading) is this: Cleric gains X domains from which he can cast spontaneously every day, with N's mod gains additional spells as they level which are rolled into the class list, thus nerfing the drek out of Clerics, but totally altering their flavor. I think.</blockquote>

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