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<blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 4154237" data-attributes="member: 158">I really don't consider 1st level 3E characters as &quot;non-heroes&quot;, because they've always been head and shoulders above the average joes. Even as far as 1st edition AD&amp;D, they have been better than commoners.OD&amp;D -- common NPCs have 1 hit dice, and no more. on par with PCs at first level, PCs quickly leave them behind.AD&amp;D1 -- 0-level commoners, at most 5 to 7 hit points, usually 1 hit point, and no special powers. 1st levels have the power, but not the hit points, but again quickly changes after level 2.AD&amp;D2 -- same thing.D&amp;D 3 -- the NPC classes are still head and shoulders worse off than any equivalent level PC, even at first level, where PCs have max hit points.But the main difference is that 4E PCs seem to be immediately more proficient than the common man, or at least we're told so in the previews. However, even though PCs are heroic, they aren't ridiculously so, since they can still die in one level 1 monster's sword stroke. In 4E, they're not outclassed, admittedly, but the fight is guaranteed to go on for multiple rounds, unless you're using minions. Therefore, where people used to gloss over the &quot;heroic traits&quot; of 1st level if not wanted, just like people used to gloss over the 1st level's non-heroic traits by auto-starting at 3rd level or so, now the tables are turned. Just like you might have glossed over it by being forced to start at higher level, now the game forces someone else to willingly ignore or handicap their characters to make the &quot;zero to hero&quot; they want to make.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Henry, post: 4154237, member: 158"] I really don't consider 1st level 3E characters as "non-heroes", because they've always been head and shoulders above the average joes. Even as far as 1st edition AD&D, they have been better than commoners. OD&D -- common NPCs have 1 hit dice, and no more. on par with PCs at first level, PCs quickly leave them behind. AD&D1 -- 0-level commoners, at most 5 to 7 hit points, usually 1 hit point, and no special powers. 1st levels have the power, but not the hit points, but again quickly changes after level 2. AD&D2 -- same thing. D&D 3 -- the NPC classes are still head and shoulders worse off than any equivalent level PC, even at first level, where PCs have max hit points. But the main difference is that 4E PCs seem to be immediately more proficient than the common man, or at least we're told so in the previews. However, even though PCs are heroic, they aren't ridiculously so, since they can still die in one level 1 monster's sword stroke. In 4E, they're not outclassed, admittedly, but the fight is guaranteed to go on for multiple rounds, unless you're using minions. Therefore, where people used to gloss over the "heroic traits" of 1st level if not wanted, just like people used to gloss over the 1st level's non-heroic traits by auto-starting at 3rd level or so, now the tables are turned. Just like you might have glossed over it by being forced to start at higher level, now the game forces someone else to willingly ignore or handicap their characters to make the "zero to hero" they want to make. [/QUOTE]

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