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<blockquote data-quote="GreatLemur" data-source="post: 3488582" data-attributes="member: 28553">I really dig this idea, and I've done a little bit of thinking in the same direction, myself.&nbsp; It's pretty much always felt wrong to me that Clerics (and other divine types) cast spells at all, and I also don't like how arcane and divine spellcasting work in basically the same way (especially now that there are other systems, such as psionics, invocations, maneuvers, etc.) which use new subsystems with totally different feels.Lately, I've even been thinking about a check-based casting system for Clerics with a cumulative difficulty, only the effects would still be based on spells (although much more domain-focused), and the check might actually be a Fortitude save.&nbsp; Failure would indicate not a refusal by the deity to grant the requested miracle, but the caster's inability to withstand the divine power he or she attempted to channel.&nbsp; (And now I'm thinking that a failed check would offer the character a choice: accept that the spell doesn't go off, or make it work, and accept some kind of penalty, like a level of fatigue, or a cumulative -1 or -2 to all checks, HP or ability score damage, something like that.)But that's a tangent.&nbsp; I dig what you're trying to do, here, and the fact that you're considering moving outside of the spell system all together is really cool.&nbsp; I do share javcs' concerns regarding the fun-killer effect of completely fizzled powers, though.&nbsp; Maybe you could take a page from the Thieves' World magic system and let a failed channeling attempt provide a bonus on the next check if the Cleric attempts the same miracle the following round?&nbsp; That way, the effort isn't completely wasted; they just need to work a little longer to get their deity's attention.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GreatLemur, post: 3488582, member: 28553"] I really dig this idea, and I've done a little bit of thinking in the same direction, myself. It's pretty much always felt wrong to me that Clerics (and other divine types) cast spells at all, and I also don't like how arcane and divine spellcasting work in basically the same way (especially now that there are other systems, such as psionics, invocations, maneuvers, etc.) which use new subsystems with totally different feels. Lately, I've even been thinking about a check-based casting system for Clerics with a cumulative difficulty, only the effects would still be based on spells (although much more domain-focused), and the check might actually be a Fortitude save. Failure would indicate not a refusal by the deity to grant the requested miracle, but the caster's inability to withstand the divine power he or she attempted to channel. (And now I'm thinking that a failed check would offer the character a choice: accept that the spell doesn't go off, or [i]make[/i] it work, and accept some kind of penalty, like a level of fatigue, or a cumulative -1 or -2 to all checks, HP or ability score damage, something like that.) But that's a tangent. I dig what you're trying to do, here, and the fact that you're considering moving outside of the spell system all together is really cool. I do share javcs' concerns regarding the fun-killer effect of completely fizzled powers, though. Maybe you could take a page from the Thieves' World magic system and let a failed channeling attempt provide a bonus on the next check if the Cleric attempts the same miracle the following round? That way, the effort isn't completely wasted; they just need to work a little longer to get their deity's attention. [/QUOTE]

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