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<blockquote data-quote="Veril" data-source="post: 2508190" data-attributes="member: 33452">Taking heavy armour prof and reducing HD to D6, what a way to cripple clerics IMO.&nbsp; Should have some seriously powered things added to them to make up for this.&nbsp; I wouldn't touch a cleric with no heavy armour and 1D6 hp.&nbsp; &nbsp;Clerics are intended to be in combat (only fighters/paladins/rangers/barbarians have better BAB than clerics).&nbsp; Simplet weapons are fine - plenty of 1D8 damage weapons out there - simple weapons give clerics access to more weapon choices than all except the 4 primary melee classes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Take a look at the clerical spells, there's a whole bunch of spells that are combat self-buffs - Rightous Might, Divine Favour, Divine Power etc.&nbsp; Without the base AC and HP you cannot afford to be in comba, and so you are therefore taking away these spells as well as valid and useful choices for the Cleric.&nbsp; &nbsp;In return for gutting the combat capabilities I'd expect something like an oratory or preaching power - something like bardic music, (and a bump up of skill points).&nbsp; As a representive of my god I speak with his voice, that's seems to allow for a whole bunch of the bardic abilities to be justiffied.&nbsp; &nbsp;Playing a cleric is pretty tedious compared to playing most other classes, you are a lot more reactive.&nbsp; Casting cures - which are far less effective in terms of HP/Spell Level compared to damaging spells simply isn't that fun.&nbsp; Big heroic fighter at the front hands out loads of damage to the monsters, cleaving, power attacking etc, making choices in return he takes loads of damage back, enough that next round he will die.&nbsp; Cleric Choices are as follows, let the fighter die and then you all die in the next few rounds because of the lack of combat capabilies, or move up and casts their 1 cure spell on the fighter.&nbsp; That's not a choice at all.&nbsp; &nbsp;The choices and decisions of the other players determine what the cleric can do.&nbsp; By the book a cleric seems to be overpowered, but that's a payoff for what a cleric has to do.&nbsp; A lot of time the cleric is having to respond to the situation passivly rather than being active.&nbsp; &nbsp;The vast majority of cleric spells are used as cures - it doesn't matter that they chose a lot of different spells, the whole game is ruled by HP's.&nbsp; If you run out of HP's it's all over.&nbsp; So the cleric simply has to convert their spells into HP for the rest of the party, or you simply stop adventuring until you have more HP.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Veril, post: 2508190, member: 33452"] Taking heavy armour prof and reducing HD to D6, what a way to cripple clerics IMO. Should have some seriously powered things added to them to make up for this. I wouldn't touch a cleric with no heavy armour and 1D6 hp. Clerics are intended to be in combat (only fighters/paladins/rangers/barbarians have better BAB than clerics). Simplet weapons are fine - plenty of 1D8 damage weapons out there - simple weapons give clerics access to more weapon choices than all except the 4 primary melee classes. Take a look at the clerical spells, there's a whole bunch of spells that are combat self-buffs - Rightous Might, Divine Favour, Divine Power etc. Without the base AC and HP you cannot afford to be in comba, and so you are therefore taking away these spells as well as valid and useful choices for the Cleric. In return for gutting the combat capabilities I'd expect something like an oratory or preaching power - something like bardic music, (and a bump up of skill points). As a representive of my god I speak with his voice, that's seems to allow for a whole bunch of the bardic abilities to be justiffied. Playing a cleric is pretty tedious compared to playing most other classes, you are a lot more reactive. Casting cures - which are far less effective in terms of HP/Spell Level compared to damaging spells simply isn't that fun. Big heroic fighter at the front hands out loads of damage to the monsters, cleaving, power attacking etc, making choices in return he takes loads of damage back, enough that next round he will die. Cleric Choices are as follows, let the fighter die and then you all die in the next few rounds because of the lack of combat capabilies, or move up and casts their 1 cure spell on the fighter. That's not a choice at all. The choices and decisions of the other players determine what the cleric can do. By the book a cleric seems to be overpowered, but that's a payoff for what a cleric has to do. A lot of time the cleric is having to respond to the situation passivly rather than being active. The vast majority of cleric spells are used as cures - it doesn't matter that they chose a lot of different spells, the whole game is ruled by HP's. If you run out of HP's it's all over. So the cleric simply has to convert their spells into HP for the rest of the party, or you simply stop adventuring until you have more HP. [/QUOTE]

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