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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Crimster" data-source="post: 111742" data-attributes="member: 2511">No.  I want to see you bleeeeeeeeeeeeed... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  The magic system itself is simply a 'part' of D&D.  Can you run a campaign with no magic? Surely, it happens all the time, and it can be very successful. Those games do not suffer for the lack of magic (not just healing!).  Take a look at WoT - they heavily modified the magic (AND healing!) system - and there are hundreds of games being run, without a problem.  You can even take out classes (a core concept if there ever was one!) and have it work (d20 Cthulhu, of course).  So I think playing with these core concepts is not only possible – it’s happening! Do not fear change!Going to have to disagree with you here,too.  Where does it say or imply this?  If this were the case, there would be no rules that state you get back your level in hit points per day of bed rest!  They would assume you have a portable cleric in your backpack to heal you when you are slightly wounded!  I would also state that despite the lack of a true cleric (we'll not mention the Fat Guy) - your group has done well, even without true healing.  There was a time when you didn't have wands of cure light wounds, remember.  And I know that there are adventuring groups out there who do fine without a cleric.  It just makes it harder, grittier, grimmer.  =)And this is a bad thing?  3E D&D levels come so fast, that you barely get used to your level before you gain another.  Of course, this could be another thread entirely, so I’ll end it here.GM:  "You have defeated the Grell, and are now back at home, nursing your wounds.  It takes about a day of bed rest to be back at full fighting capacity, thanks to your cleric.  That day passes uneventfully."Not that hard, methinks. Not sure how you tie those two together, but I think this is you attempting to connect subdual healing to slow leveling.  As I stated before, this is not a bad thing.  It's a good thing.  But your example (an obvious exaggeration, of course) would never happen, regardless.  In-game time may pass faster - because of the bed-time (heh) - but that is good too! I don't think a fighter can gain 10 levels in one month (HIS time).  I think Rand from WoT has grown too far, too fast (it’s been a little over a year since he left Two Rivers).  But I think this is part of the story – i.e., he’s Lews Therin reborn.   This is a very valid concern.  But let's talk about the type of campaign that I want to run.  City based; players are thieves (every 3rd, maybe 4th level has to be in rogue) who belong to a guild; other guilds, guards, corrupt guards, secretive wizards, nobles, etc will be the foes; adventures will revolve around breaking into homes, bypassing magical and mundane traps, intra and inter-guild conflict, etc.Ok, now the image of a wounded comrade being helped from the scene of a battle - fleeing from the scene of a battle - is appealing.  This campaign won't be about heroes.  (although in my mind's eye, I can see the PC's becoming heroes, but that's something else).  This is about trying to avoid fighting.  Of course, violence will dog your heels like a homeless puppy.  Grim? Oh yes.  And just the feeling I want.A problem even when you play normal D&D – I can’t see this making it more of a problem anyways.  This  comes down to the DM making sure that people have equal time, and that if someone is knocked out (or whatever) it’s for a short duration.  I hereby vow as a DM, I’ll do my best not to leave you bored.  If this is so, you have my permission to read whenever you want.  =)Another valid point.  Perhaps then it would be a good idea to institute a defense bonus?  I do not see this as a major mechanic that would require heavy modifying.Our own society, despite the fact that we can fly to the moon, paralyze a person with electricity, and type on a glorified abacus, we cannot instantly heal a small scratch.  Regardless, in my concept for this world, there are ways to do True Healing, it’s just harder.  My thoughts are that while ‘Cure Light Wounds’ heals subdual damage at 1st level, the ‘Cure True Light Wounds’ heals HP directly (and maybe that spell is 3rd, or somesuch).Bah! You yourself should know it is always easier to harm than to heal.And guess who would be the more popular person? The cleric.  The ability to completely heal someone after 1 day of rest?? BY THE GODS!  Let’s not even talk about the ability to cure disease!Fights deadlier you say? Ahhh yes.  Excellent.  Come on – 3E is almost like playing Champions, but with swords.  A group of 4th level adventures do not ever, ever, ever fear a group of goblins (unless the DM plays the goblins as tactical geniuses).  In my mind, there should always be a sliver of fear.  Especially in this type of campaign, where the players are not meant to take on a squadron of guards and win…!Ayup.  Fighters main focus is dealing damage.  Making their damage subdual would take away more from them than my proposed change.  Clerics can do SO much more than heal.  They have armor.  They have weapons.  They can hold you, blind you, curse you… Need I go on?  However I do agree with you on some small scale, and I am considering some modification for their relatively small (IMHO) loss.I agree with you here, totally.  I do not buy the 80/20 concept.Of course! This is all theory anyways, I’m not ready to run the City Campaign next week or even the week after.  =)The Crimster</blockquote>

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