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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cougar" data-source="post: 111966" data-attributes="member: 2772">Why change?I think both of you (Poltergeist and Crimster) make decent arguments and I would certainly like to hear and or participate in a verbal debate concerning this subject. The question I have is why change the way things are done? I think Poltergeists's main point about healing being a core mechanic is true and the games that Crimster is citing as counterpoints are wildly different in balance. Playing a 3E game means Third Edition rules with a D&D flavor. The other games mentioned are D20 systems and have been balanced individually. Still, this does not change the fact that people change the rules and balance of classes all the time in their own campaigns. So I am not trying to convince anyone that it isn't a good idea, but offer other ideas on how the effect desired can be achieved. My suggestion is make healing (normal healing) inaccessible. Don't allow the characters to take cleric as a class. Remove the healing spells from the bard list. Healing potions should be rare and mega-expensive. Any wands that are discovered would be subject to a Use Magical Device check from the rogue that wanted healing, making it difficult to heal without wasting a charge or two from an already expensive item. In addition, the characters are thieves. They won't have access to the temples and churches of most gods to do any major healing they need that can't be covered by just resting. And think of the roleplaying possibilities with a cleric from a church of a good god whom is tricked into healing the PCs a couple of times. If the PCs can only heal regular damage they certainly will have more downtime, but as stated in the rebuttal of Crimster this is not really an issue as it is between missions.In any case, with no healers in the campaign, assuming no one even wants to play a bard or cleric in between their levels as rogues, why does it matter if when they are through with there mission they go back and are fully healed?I am not positive, but I am 99 percent sure there will be no PC clerics in the campaign. Making a small change to the bard spell list then making healing all but impossible to obtain would serve the same purpose without mucking around with class balance. Changing mechanics is always a more difficult thing than just changing the frequency and price of obtaining items and services. I think that restricting the already restricted players to no clerics (which I am sure would happen anyway) and removing the cures from the bard spell list will solve this problem and make the healing items much more important and sought after, either by stealth and deception or by coin will result in a grittier campaign, where the PCs must survive by evasion and wits instead of brawn.PS: Crimster-- Goblins may have been a joke creature in 2nd ED, but slap some rogue or fighter levels on them and you have an opponent for all levels of play (whether tactical geniuses or not).</blockquote>

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