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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Perun" data-source="post: 1623845" data-attributes="member: 6037">I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I'm not saying that in order to play an effective cleric one needs to have a 16 in all stats, but -- similar to paladins, monks and bards -- cleric needs decent stats in the majority of his abilities. With the difference that paladins, monks and bards are, how to put it, non-core core classes. While it's not explicitly mentioned int he rules, most players will agree that there are four "base" classes: fighter, cleric, wizard and rogue. It appears that this combination of classes gives you the greatest effect. Of those, in order to get them to fully utilise their roles in the party, fighter needs two good stats (Str and Con) or three (Str, Dex, Con, if he wants to be a good archer), Rogue needs one (Dex) or two (Dex and Int), and Wizard needs a single good roll (Int). Cleric needs four, like I already said.It's not like the "breadth" is optional, those are the class abilites the character gets, if he decides to dump one of them, he's weakening the character. It's like giving a fighter a low Con score, and saying he gets a d10 HD and a good armour, so he doesn't need the extra hp.I'm not saying cleric is a bad class. It's really not. It's just not made to cover the wide range of your D&D gods. Does the current cleric make sence as a devotee of a deity of beauty, or thievery, or peace? Not much. That's why I liked the cloistered variant so much. Now, you have your martial, crusader-type cleric, to represent the more militant priests, and you've got the cloistered cleric, to fulfill the role of a scholar, diplomat and various other cleric types.</blockquote>

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