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Message: <blockquote data-quote="potomak" data-source="post: 4246868" data-attributes="member: 67343">The KotS Cleric is fine. There isn't anything wrong with him. Even if the entirety of the issue actually came down to the question of "is the cleric's capacity to heal worth an extra 20% miss chance on its attacks", I would still say that the cleric is fine.As I look at my cleric character sheet, I notice that they do in fact have a mere +3 on their attacks, due to their wisdom modifier. I then glance over at the wizard who has a mere +4, due to his int modifier.I've seen no problem with either of these - they both work nearly equally well (with a 5% difference, of course). The reason for this is simple: they aren't attacking the same defenses that the fighters and rogues are concentrating their efforts against. The cleric is rolling against reflex on his at-wills. The wizard is rolling against fort and will. This changes... everything - and I don't see why this hasn't come up yet.When you're playing a cleric or wizard, you have to acknowledge that some creatures are just going to make themselves out to be better targets, and you have to find them.**Spoilers**[sblock]In KotS, the first encounter pits the heroes against some kobolds - of the minion, slinger, and dragonshield variety. The defenses are as follows:Slinger - AC 13, Fort 12, Ref 14, Will 12Minion - AC 15, Fort 11, Ref 13, Will 11Dragonshield - AC 18, Fort 14, Ref 13, Will 13The Cleric's at-will ability is +3 to hit, and it's against reflex. A fighter, on the other hand, has a +6 to hit on his at-will, and it's against AC instead.Let's take a look at that dragonshield, shall we? If the fighter is attacking the dragonshield, he's looking at needing a 12 or higher to hit. A cleric, on the other hand, only needs a 10. I don't see the problem here for the cleric.Yes, I know it isn't as great against the slingers and the minions - but come on. We've all played 3.5, where we learned to avoid using will-save spells against mages, and dumped them on the brutish looking types - and laid the fort-save spells on the mages. It's the same concept here, though it looks a little bit different. Each monster role seems to have, across the board, predictable defenses. Learn those, and you'll have a more productive character in combat.Using that encounter as an example - the dragonshields charged the melee characters, and promptly marked them. The cleric aided in that struggle, and contributed quite nicely, having a better chance of a success than the fighter - meanwhile, the ranger and wizard knocked out the minions and slingers. Everything worked out fine, everyone had similar chances of succeeding in what they were doing, no one got killed, everyone had fun, and the cleric wasn't complaining about not having 20 wisdom out of the gate.[/sblock]As for the encounter ability - I'll grant that it's worse than I'd like - on the pregen, that is. They made a character right out of the gate with MAD. I'm certain it was to showcase a diverse array of abilities, but I could easily see players focusing on either str or wis when they make their own clerics - but unlikely both (just like the rogue, which will seemingly be focusing either on Str or Dex, but unlikely both). For that matter, now that I look at those encounter abilities again...Healing Strike (Clr 1)2[W] + str damage, target is marked until the end of your next turn. In addition, you or one ally within 5 squares can spend a healing surge.Spinning Sweep (Ftr 1)2[W] + str damage, target knocked prone.Knocking the target prone is nice, but I think Healing Strike is a bit meaner - it having that extra 15% chance of missing (from the pregen sheets) seems almost acceptable in my book - but I'm sure a better built cleric won't have it that bad if a player felt so inclined to utilize that ability.</blockquote>

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