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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deadguy" data-source="post: 532606" data-attributes="member: 2480">I must confess that when I created my Shattered World campaign setting I completely forgot that clerics didn't have to have a deity per the rules. Instead, and to emphasise that the setting has no gods, I renamed them Theurges and reworked the class to make it more general. They are devoted to certain Philosophies, being driven with a Passion that they can turn into magical effects (I called them raptures rather than spells to emphasise the difference to players).Wanting to account for the source of their power, I posited that the Sun and the shadowy Darkheart were the sources of Positive and Negative Energy respectively. This flows as a great river back and forth between them. The whole world is immersed in these 'rivers', and this energy is sensitive to the beliefs of those who are within it. If they lack suitable training you end up with Adepts, who focus on their raw emotion. But powerful Philosophies can teach their adherents to manipulate the Flow more subtly, granting both Raptures (spells) and Domain Powers. There's no mediation here, save an understanding of how to manipulate the Flow better.I mention  this example, because it's clear that you can't answer the question of the Cleric of No Deity generically. Every game world will have an explanation which either permits or denies their existence. Whilst that's trite, it is a reminder to DMs that they need to give some thought to this point. Where indeed does Clerical power derive? What are the limits on its access? What effects will this power have on the game world?One thing I have noticed, discussing with other DMs, is the tendency of some players to choose to play Clerics of No Deity (CoND) not because they have an overarching principle, but because they want to munchkinize their PC. After all, the CoND has the benefit of choosing any two Domains, to maximise their 'kewl powerz'. Plus, lacking a deity, they can try to argue that they have no clerical hierarchy to answer to, and no deity imposing demands on the PC. I am not, of course, saying that all CoNDs are like this, or even most, but the fact that it can be so exploited means that DMs need to consider this point for their game world. To allow its exploitation is to undermine the players of standard Clerics and to demean the system of faiths in the setting.</blockquote>

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