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<blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5458127" data-attributes="member: 8835">I think you've been reading way too much into what Umbran is saying.If nothing else, I read Umbran, I get his point.&nbsp; I read you, I go &quot;what's this dude going on about?&quot;I'm not sure how we got onto D&amp;D magic as regards PC Sacrifice situations.&nbsp; I suppose you surmise a PC could invent a spell to solve the problem in a new way.I can't speak for 4e, but all the other editions sitting on my shelf:D&amp;D magic is rigid.&nbsp; Most of the spells only do exactly what the book says it does.&nbsp; Wish spells are probably the most flexible, but are limited to high level PCs usually.Spells take time to invent.&nbsp; Probably more time than the PCs have to solve the problem (as in, hurry up and bind this demon before I run out of HP).&nbsp; they also require GM review and approval, which is something that tends to occur outside of the game.&nbsp; In short, PCs don't invent new spells during the game.Story magic challenges aren't based on spells, but DM fiat.&nbsp; If the DM says it'll take a blood sacrifice to trap the demon, he just made that up for the encounter.&nbsp; To my knowledge, there's no RAW spell to do that or to setup that scenario.So, barring spells like a wish being available to a PC, there are no spells or magic that allow the PC to just pull a rabit out of their hat, as in create a brand new effect never before seen in the game, in the scope of a gaming session.Now we could preface all this crap I spouted as &quot;in my game&quot; and &quot;by GM choice&quot;.&nbsp; But the probability is, the majority of people playing D&amp;D by the RAW understood and accept what Umbran meant and what I expounded.&nbsp; Because as far as I can tell, that's generally how the game has worked for the last 30 years.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Janx, post: 5458127, member: 8835"] I think you've been reading way too much into what Umbran is saying. If nothing else, I read Umbran, I get his point. I read you, I go "what's this dude going on about?" I'm not sure how we got onto D&D magic as regards PC Sacrifice situations. I suppose you surmise a PC could invent a spell to solve the problem in a new way. I can't speak for 4e, but all the other editions sitting on my shelf: D&D magic is rigid. Most of the spells only do exactly what the book says it does. Wish spells are probably the most flexible, but are limited to high level PCs usually. Spells take time to invent. Probably more time than the PCs have to solve the problem (as in, hurry up and bind this demon before I run out of HP). they also require GM review and approval, which is something that tends to occur outside of the game. In short, PCs don't invent new spells during the game. Story magic challenges aren't based on spells, but DM fiat. If the DM says it'll take a blood sacrifice to trap the demon, he just made that up for the encounter. To my knowledge, there's no RAW spell to do that or to setup that scenario. So, barring spells like a wish being available to a PC, there are no spells or magic that allow the PC to just pull a rabit out of their hat, as in create a brand new effect never before seen in the game, in the scope of a gaming session. Now we could preface all this crap I spouted as "in my game" and "by GM choice". But the probability is, the majority of people playing D&D by the RAW understood and accept what Umbran meant and what I expounded. Because as far as I can tell, that's generally how the game has worked for the last 30 years. [/QUOTE]

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